How America’s AI Demand Boom is Being Powered with Peter Sawicki (Mitsubishi Power Americas)

Welcome to transmission, the podcast that uncovers the business of clean energy. I am Alejandro Odedego, market analyst at Moto Energy. At the recent Reuters Energy Life conference, where this episode was recorded, one question was on everyone's lips. How do we power all of these new data centers? The energy industry is going through a strange moment.

The transition to clean power is accelerating, but the grid is also being asked to do something new. It's being asked to power a second economy, the AI boom. But data centers are not normal customers. They need a lot of power now with no interruptions and no excuses. That demand is colliding with a basic reality. That reality is new infrastructure is slow. Transformers take time.

Transmission takes longer. Interconnection queues are backed up everywhere. As a result, the question has started to shift.

Instead of what's the cleanest system in two thousand and forty? We're increasingly asking what keeps data centers running in twenty twenty six. That's where today's episode begins. With that tension between climate ambition and the need for reliability, between long term decarbonization and short term capacity.

Our guest is Peter Sawicki from Mitsubishi Power Americas. He sells and builds large power equipment, gas turbines, combined cycle plants, basically grid scale hardware meant to run for decades. And that's why this conversation is interesting because it forces a hard and comfortable question. When demand increases faster than clean supply can be built, what fills the gap?

Gas is an obvious answer, but it's also a risky one. Yes, it's flexible. Yes, it's also proven, but it's still fossil fuel. And every temporary bridge has a habit of becoming permanent. Peter doesn't dodge that. He knows that gas alone is not the ideal answer. It's a shock absorber, something that buys time while the grid expands and storage scales.

A pragmatic response to a timing problem. And he argues that even in the near term, the real story is hybrid systems. Gas for steady power, batteries for instant response.

Because AI loads don't behave like factories, the reliability standards are brutal. This logic is already reshaping the map. Not just where data centers get built, but how they get built.

On-site power, private mini grids that bypass the waiting list. So this episode isn't about loving or hating gas. It's about confronting the timeline. What happens when the world electrifies? When AI demand surges? And when the clean system we want isn't being built fast enough to meet the needs of the system we have.

Welcome back to transmission.

Petrie, thank you very much for joining us today. Can you start by telling us about yourself, what you do at Mitsubishi, and what does Mitsubishi actually do?

Sure. Thanks for having me. Happy to be on the podcast. I've been with Mitsubishi now eleven years.

Always been in the power industry, so I've got about thirty years of experience in this industry. I live in San Diego. I've got a family of five. Three young ones.

One just started university this year, so very excited about that. So, yeah. It's more I can't think of a more exciting time to be in the industry than right now.

It's really booming with all the activity going on. Yeah. So thanks again for having me.

Of course. If you could simply describe what Mitsubishi does within any industry, what services or products it Sure.

So I work for a division of MHI, which in Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, called Mitsubishi Power. Primarily, we are gas turbine manufacturers at our heart. We also have some other technologies, but primarily, most of the business is around large scale gas turbines.

So, our manufacturing is in Japan, but we also do manufacturing in Savannah, Georgia as well. We have a big assembly facility in Savannah. And in Orlando, we actually do some, some blade and vein work for gas turbine components as well.

Okay, great. And what type of daily tasks do you have in your role for the audience to understand?

Right, so I started out in the industry on the sales side of the business, so I'm still very much on the sales side with Mitsubishi Power. Within the last year, I took a role in a a group called Emerging Technologies. So I'm leading this group called Emerging Technologies. So it's very business development focused. What we're doing is focusing on our nonconventional customers, which we we call them nonconventional, but it's basically nonutility or nonpower development customers. So we're looking at talking a lot of the hyperscalers, talking to all the co locators, and just really small scale pow powered land developers in the AI space. So I most of my activity is really day to day conversations around just the big boom around data center build out, and trying to understand that market.

And can you tell us a bit more about the boom that you're living with the data center development so that everyone in the audience understands it? Where is that demand coming from, and which regions, what type of customers usually?

Right. I will say it's unprecedented. This has been kind of a, not a boring space. I mean, geeks, we always consider our space pretty exciting.

But, you know, now over the last few years, we're seeing just an unprecedented demand that we've really never seen this energy growth that we're we're experiencing right now, and a lot of that is being driven by the data center growth in the United States. I think almost fifty percent of it. We're still are seeing a lot of domestic onshoring as well with this new administration, so that's only compounding to the growth we're seeing. So the challenge is really trying to keep up with the demand we're seeing for some of our key customers at this time.

Okay. Thank you for explaining that. You have been talking about how the energy industry and power operators can manage all of the data center requests as large loads interconnections. Was there a moment when you clearly saw the gap between what the grid can deliver and what these new loads require?

Yeah. That happened probably early last year when I took this role. I mean, even before probably I took the role, I was I expressed an interest in just jumping into this sector just because we we needed to know so much about this, what's happening. Because frankly speaking, you know, a couple of years ago, we didn't have this on horizon. You know, we we weren't planning for this major boom in AI and expecting this massive load growth. So it kind of surprised the industry in general.

So but I would say probably summer of last year, we really were in the middle of it. We were seeing orders rising with some of the utility customers we have, and that's really when the kinda lights went off that we were going to see kind of a unprecedented demand. And then, you know, every month I would say the story has been evolving. You know, I'm sure the story, if you interviewed me in a couple of months from now, there would be a completely different story.

But so far, you know, it feels like you almost have to pinch yourself because you you think that this market cannot last long. But the fact is, you know, the the hyperscalers and the co locators are really putting the money where their mouth is and spending on these resources. So so we're seeing a tremendous build out. And from some of our key customers, you know, we are a manufacturer for large gas turbines primarily.

So we really see that market as being kind of the core utility customers in the market. And so those customers, utility customers are really building as fast as they can to meet meet that demand. So we're really in a really great spot right now in in the industry. We do have some smaller technology.

We can talk about that maybe a little bit later, how we're seeing this kinda behind the meter start building out. But right now, you know, the the focus of the company is really trying to meet the the massive demand for grid connected, clean power.

I see. If you could tell the audience what it's like from the supplier side, what has it been to adapt to this situation demands? What measures have you taken? What effects has it created within the organization? How have you adapted to this massive demand?

Yeah. So it's easy to say that you can increase capacity pretty dramatically, but you know, you also have to execute on that technology. And so, at Mitsubishi Power, we have gas turbine technology. As we approach the market, we're very pragmatic about doing things. So what that means for us is really trying to figure out how we can not only scale up the factories that we have. Right? But also as we execute these projects, to execute them with excellence.

Yeah, and so that people understand the actual scale of the product that you're selling, can you walk us through in simple terms how the whole process looks like? For example, utility reaches out to you, They need a new turbine. How long does it take? So till the moment they receive that turbine, what different steps do you have to follow to for quality assurance, for manufacturing it, and for sending it over is a very complex process. Right?

Right. That is certainly. Yeah. Typically, the schedule would be, like, from a development point of view, if a utility comes to us and wants to order a turbine, you know, it would be a couple of year delivery.

That's extended out now further than that. So we're looking at several years for for deliveries of these turbines. And, and then after delivery of the turbine, you still have another couple of years of of installation of the turbine commissioning of the of the power plant to really get those electrons. So right now you're pushing out, like I mentioned, several years before you can actually see those electrons on the grid, which is providing a creating a huge challenge for the industry.

As you know, many of these data centers, they want power now. They're all talking about, you know, twenty twenty six delivery for power, twenty twenty seven delivery for power, and that's, you know, that's the huge challenge in the industry now, is how we can continue to try to support them with the with the build out of of this massive demand that that we're seeing in the industry.

And you have hit a point that I wanted to ask now. You have been saying data centers, what they value most is speed to interconnection, speed to power, actually. Correct. And this leads to multiple solutions, connecting to the grid, going through the interconnection queue, or bringing generation on-site.

We have seen that Mitsubishi has been proposing turbine plus battery setups, for hyperscalers on data centers. What exactly is that? Where is the setup offering that others don't?

Yeah. It's still very much at our core. We're equipment manufacturers.

And I mentioned the the large scale gas turbine that we manufacture. This is, you know, in a in a combined cycle application, that's almost seven hundred megawatt or over seven hundred megawatts of of power production. If you think about a midsize utility, you're talking about, you know, three thousand megawatts of of capacity. So we're talking about, you know, units that are not easily delivered behind the meter.

Those are more geared towards our smaller aero derivative gas turbines. So we do have a division that manufactures our small aero derivative gas turbines. These are normally like thirty megawatt gas turbines. So where these make a lot of sense is the bring your own power concept.

We can trailer mount these units. They can move them out to the site very quickly, and then we can install them within weeks on the site.

You mentioned the the offerings that we're trying to build upon now is really trying to pair that up with different technologies that we have in house or as associated So as the as you bring your own power to a a data center, it's a really complicated solution because many of these data centers require extremely high reliability.

They talk five nines, which is to try to think about that from a mechanical point of view, it's not easy to Yes.

To achieve. Right? So you need to back up quite a bit. So that's where really installing more and more capacity makes sense.

So you have to actually over provide overcapacity, and that's what you can do very easily with these small, power plants where you have small gas turbines. And then when you pair the battery with it, you're able to take some of the transients that we see. Some of these large language learning models, they have transients in milliseconds that the gas turbine in itself will not be able to respond to. Right?

So you need some sort of buffer in between the data center and the gas turbine itself. So we are seeing a lot of battery installations come between that than just the the specific equipment components.

I see. And just to put a simple example, let's say that a new customer comes in a hyperscaler one hundred MW data center. What would a simple setup look like in terms of those small gas turbines plus a battery purring? What would be the size of each of the systems?

And as you said, probably the battery would be focused on fast response, whereas the gas turbines for the base load. Right? Correct? What would be each sizing?

Yeah. Generally speaking, you know, and it it differs from customer to customer. Right? I would say kind of an m plus one, m plus two arrangement.

So, you know, with the FTA gas turbine, which is normally thirty megawatts, you do have three that you'd be counting on online all the time. Yeah. And potentially one or even two just sitting in in backup. We have the ability with these gas turbines.

As I mentioned, they are trailer mounted, so we can we can move them in and out quickly and swap them out quickly. So if you have an issue with a gas turbine, you can get another one to site fairly quickly, which provides a lot of, resiliency around that point of view as well. And then batteries, you're probably looking at about fifty megawatts of of battery installation as well to take out the buffer. So, basically, half of that general load that you would have a battery installation buffering out some of these transients that you were seeing so that so that the gas turbine arrangement sees a pretty stable load.

Yes. And in that sense, what duration of batteries are we seeing for these solutions?

Yeah. Normally, would say four hour battery system is a pretty has become a pretty standard solution. So you wouldn't figure a couple hundred megawatt hour system for that application.

And after selling the turbines, would you be also on the operating and maintenance side with the customers, or would they deal with operations?

Typically, we sell a gas turbine, it comes with a long term service agreement, so that's typically how we go about the business. We have a kind of a twenty year agreement that sits on the back end of the of the sale, where we would basically be monitoring the gas turbine throughout its life, making sure it operates at very high reliabilities going forward, and have a service plan and parts plan to go with that long term service agreement.

And now with this new solution available for developers, has this changed the approach of site selection for these data centers, for example? Because now they don't need to look for a place with good interconnection queue odds.

Yeah. It's it certainly has. You know, in the early days, we would have many, land developers coming to us and say they have an ideal site for a center application. And maybe that's true from a fiber point of view, but, you know, it didn't have any really gas interconnectivity. So typically, when when when these folks would look for a site, they would look for a site that had maybe multiple connections from a interconnection point of view that provided high reliability.

Yes.

And then obviously fiber connections, so you're seeing Virginia and and these spots. And now with with AI and the and the, you know, the LLMs, they really could be anywhere in the United States. So you're seeing like the geography of these split out through more diverse locations, and really siding around gas has become a kind of a critical component of how they go about their business. So they're looking for electrical interconnection, fiber of course, but now also looking at gas lines as well.

So they can they can have either bring your own power or they can work with the local utility and have some sort of cooperative agreement where they can you know have a a almost a purpose built large combined cycle on-site. We've seen that with, with some of the work that we've done with Entergy in Louisiana. Met us and announced that a rather large installation, you know, couple of gigawatts of of of data center. Yeah.

So, you know, that's basically, you know, an ideal situation where they're working very closely with a utility. We have a local power plant that sits adjacent to the site, but yet it is ultimately grid connected, so backed up by the grid, which takes out some of the need for all that additional redundancy. Because as you can imagine, building all that redundancy into the system is rather costly. But it's a necessary evil in some cases to get power now.

You have mentioned that a lot of customers are going for you for the behind the meter solutions. Do these customers usually also develop at the same time that path to interconnection just in case for the future years, or are they planning to stay off the grid for the long term?

Yeah. That's kind of a mixed bag question as well because we do see it across the board. Yes. Different answers depending on different customers you see.

We have seen stand alone power solutions where folks are looking to build and operate that facility behind the meter for the foreseeable future. But in general, I think most of them will be bridge solutions. So the way we see the market is kind of you'd install your power plant, you get running for three to five years, you get your grid interconnection. The grid interconnection is then your your most reliable source of power, and then you have a grid asset where you could actually curtail load, you know, and peak shave and and run kind of arbitrage with that asset that you have on-site.

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Enjoy the conversation.

Now jumping onto front of the mirror.

Okay.

A lot of people hear gas turbines, and they think they are outdated. They're not the optimal solution right now.

And with how the systems are evolving right now, high high renewable penetration, what is the real economic value that gas turbines are bringing to the grid right now, and why are they, again, very much needed Yeah. In this I would say gas turbines, you know, potentially with some folks historically, you know, have have gotten a bad rap.

Alright? It's fossil fuel derived. But if you look at the impact that gas turbines have on the industry over the last twenty years, I mean, we've been able to decarbonize about fifty percent in the grid in the United States, and a lot of that is from coal conversion to natural gas combined cycle. So these operate extremely high efficiencies.

We're talking about close to sixty five percent combined cycle efficiencies, extremely clean combustion of of natural gas. So these are really clean, reliable assets that kind of are a bit underappreciated in the industry because they really have helped us decarbonize quite a bit over time. So going forward, you know, we're excited about continuing to deploy. As we mentioned earlier, I mean, it's all about power now, so we're trying to deploy as fast as we can.

But at Mitsubishi Power, we haven't given up on the vision for decarbonization. And so we're really start continuing to push, those those technologies forward. So we've had, obviously, the big project in Delta, Utah, and I don't know if you're familiar with it, but Yes. Hydrogen capability, right, with the gas turbine itself.

We have a reduction facility where we can do hydrogen production and take long term long duration storage of hydrogen and run that in the gas turbine. And more recently, we've had an announcement, with the Broadwing project where we're partnered with a company called LCI, and and Google's also a part of this, where we're actually going to be pairing the gas turbine up with carbon capture technology. So where we can actually capture the carbon post combustion and and and store that in underground cabins. Right.

So that the technology continues to evolve forward, but I think one thing that's forgotten in the industry is how impactful gas turbines have been to allow us to decarbonize. And then one more other thing that I should mention is just the flexibility that gas turbines bring. Right? So we have seen, you know, as far as with the with the build out of of solar and wind over the last decade, you know, the gas turbine role has historically changed to be more of a backup.

So these gas turbines can, you know, extremely flexible. We've done a lot of work with flexibility. We so we can really shape around a lot of that renewable growth that we see coming forward in in in the market.

So you mentioned hydrogen, used as one of the paths to reach the decarbonization goals of the company. We have read about IPP Renu, one of your projects, and the turbines that you're using there. Apparently, can switch them from burning gas to burning hydrogen. Can you tell us a bit more about the project and how these turbines work, or what differences do they have compared to the classic turbines?

Sure. So we're very excited about the project. I particularly have been working on that project for close to ten years now, working very closely with LADWP, the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. As you may know, they're shutting down their coal fired facility in Delta, Utah, and they wanted to replace it with a natural gas turbine technology. It provides quite a bit of electricity.

They have a DC link that takes energy from Utah all the way into California, so they wanted to keep that link running because it they do see a value in bringing a lot of renewable energy along that link.

That's where they looked at the idea of putting gas turbines, which act as I mentioned earlier, flexible in in the ability to basically keep that line operating.

And so as they were looking at this, they were looking at means to help decarbonize that as well. So Mitsubishi Power has been doing a lot of r and d work on hydrogen for for probably twenty years now. We've we've got different applications with different turbines using either blast furnace gas where we have high hydrogen components in the gas turbine. So we're very comfortable with the idea of utilizing gas turbine, hydrogen in the gas turbine.

As you're looking at the kind of the specifics on the gas turbine, you're really looking at combustion of of the hydrogen. That has different characteristics than natural gas. So this higher flame temperature, faster combustion that need to be accounted for in the gas turbine. So really, as you're looking at kind of going from a natural gas turbine to a hydrogen turbine, you're really looking at the combustion dynamics within that gas turbine.

So as we look to make a gas turbine hydrogen ready, we're really looking at two things. One is the combustor specifically. We wanna make sure we can we can combust that hydrogen at a very low emissions level. So that's where a lot of the r and d money is focusing on right now.

But also is to make sure that we can accommodate the higher, diameter piping that's associated with carrying hydrogen, because we will require hydrogen larger. So when we say a project is hydrogen ready, that means the generator enclosures and the power plant layout is sized so they can accommodate the large bore piping when they do go to switch to a, to a hydrogen environment. But the gas turbine specifically at the IPP renewed project will be capable of thirty percent hydrogen when it commissions this year. So that's with conventional combustion technology.

We're looking to replace those combustors within the next few years to a new technology where we can combust a hundred percent hydrogen. So really the the power plant proper doesn't really see any difference between the hydrogen or natural gas combustion other than really the combustion of of the hydrogen directly, so the combustor zone.

Could it be seen in simple terms as designing the turbine to resist the temperatures so that it can withstand gas as well.

And doing so in a in a way that your your emissions are are manageable. Right? So you're really trying to drive down emissions while you do that process. Because we do have a lot of experience, as I mentioned, with combustion of hydrogen where we would use like water injection to control, some of the nitrous oxides. Here, you're looking at, with the new technology that we're we're testing at our facility in in, Tagasago, which is our R and D, facility in Japan.

We're actually utilizing no water injection, so it'll be a dry, dry combustion. And we've done quite a bit of testing on one of our smaller gas turbines at that Tagasago facility. We've already tested up to one hundred percent combustion with that new combustion technology.

I see. Okay.

What does this translate to in contract types and in CapEx numbers for developers when they buy these turbines compared to the classic ones?

Yeah. So it's really a nominal difference as far as the difference between a hydrogen ready turbine or a purely natural gas turbine. There is some larger enclosures, right, but when you look at the grand scheme of things, it's very nominal on the overall EPC cost. So it's not dramatically different, you know, if you're looking at a hydrogen turbine versus a conventional natural gas turbine.

Okay.

And from a financing and lender's perspective, when they hear that a product has a hydrogen ready turbine, does it change the financing of the project for the for the developers or not? Have you seen anything special in the market?

Yeah. Oh, I can't speak to too much of the financing part of it. I don't sit on kind of the development part of it, but as a kind of an equipment manufacturer, we have to make sure that we live up to the guarantees that we provide. Right? So as I mentioned in the beginning of this podcast, we're very conservative as we we look at product development. So we we look at that reduces a lot of the insurance risk on the product because we've actually tested the unit. So that's really kind of our part of the project, is really just making sure that we provide that certainty around technology, and that we're gonna live up to the guarantees that we're putting in front of the customer.

I see.

Okay.

Thank you for sharing Same product, IPP Renew.

We have read that you can also have the capability of producing green hydrogen, store it in salt caverns, and later feed it to the hydrogen ready turbine.

Right.

Can you tell us a bit more about that part of the project?

Yeah. So they really the genesis came from from the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, their kind of vision as they were looking at how this market is going to build out with all the renewable penetration in California, they really see saw a need not only to store energy on a short term basis with, you know, with lithium ion batteries, you know, four hour basis, but also do more seasonal storage. They saw a real value in in in having that ability. And that's really what the IPP project allows them to do is to take massive amounts of renewable energy, store it in salt in salt and salt and and then return it to the grid when they when they need it.

So you can have more seasonal storage of of hydrogen versus just a intraday storage of hydrogen. I think going forward, they'll really see the value of that, as as the project is is come on come on comes online. And really, I think that's also going to build out a new industry in that area because of the ability to store hydrogen. I think you'll also see a lot more development in and around that area that will kind of take the benefits of that ability to store hydrogen for long periods of time.

And when we're talking about storage capacity, for how long are we talking? Are we talking about having fuel for months, for a summer, for a week, for how long?

You're certainly talking multiple weeks of storage, potentially up to months of storage with that facility.

Okay. So from the ownership perspective, who are the primary owners? I have read that you also have a loan for the project. How is that divided, and who is carrying the risks exactly here?

Mitsubishi Power is a minority shareholder in the in the advanced clean energy storage project with Chevron being the primary shareholder. I'm not intimately involved in the in the negotiations around the the actual project itself, so I can't speak to exact percentage of the ownerships, but I can say that we are a minority shareholder in the project, and then the loan guarantee would be obviously shared equitably through the shareholders. Right?

Okay. Great. Thank you for sharing that as well.

No problem.

Now looking into the future, looking five to ten years out, where do you think hydrogen ready turbines and large scale hydrogen stores will actually scale first in the US and which regions would you say?

Well, we did see a lot of activity in the Gulf States, right, when we were looking at, the build out around hydrogen with the, you know, with the hub the DOE hub program. Yes. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of challenges with hydrogen now. As we mentioned earlier, the story has changed dramatically where it's all about the priority stack, I would say, has shifted from a lot of customers and utilities where it's all about power now.

So the good news is all the gas turbines we're installing today have hydrogen capability. We did a big test on one of our older gas turbines in Georgia, last year where we're testing up to fifty percent hydrogen. So we're very confident that at least in the gas turbines we're installing today that they can have thirty percent hydrogen, which is a massive amount of hydrogen. I mean, it would take a massive project to take one of these large gas turbines and provide it with thirty percent blend of of hydrogen.

So the good news is everything that we're installing today has hydrogen capability naturally built built into it. I think the goal I mentioned the Gulf States because of all the just the natural infrastructure in in and around this region here. We're sitting in Houston today as we as we speak. So I think the Gulf States will probably kick off first in in my mind or as we as we look to build out hydrogen and specifically in the domestic market.

Now seeing that the turbines are ready for carrying hydrogen, is that also true for the gas pipeline system? Can they support percentage of blend with hydrogen right now? Yeah. Or does the network need modifications?

Yeah. The network does need modifications. And, you know, as we were looking at, developing through the hub program, we were looking at dedicated hydrogen pipelines to deliver hydrogen. So to the queue from a, you know, a renewable rich area where you can generate and then take that via dedicated pipeline, It would take a, pretty significant infrastructure build out to take the the current natural gas system and then start implementing hydrogen in that. There have been several studies done, but really, I think what we'd see first is probably dedicated hydrogen pipeline build out sometime in the foreseeable future. Okay.

Thank you.

The demand side for your products, which types of customers are the first asking for these products? Can you give us a bit more color on who's asking?

Yeah.

Specifically to hydrogen or Yes.

Hydrogen ready turbines.

Yeah. I said, the priority stack over the last three to five years has shifted pretty dramatically. So, you know, as we were looking at the market five years ago, it was all about, you know, decarbonization of the gas turbine, right, and how quickly can we deliver these to market. Today, the story is very much different, right?

It's all about how quickly can you deliver any any power to the market. So, what we're hearing from our customers today is really just about deliverability, and how quickly can can you deliver and execute with excellence so they can get those electrons on the on the grid as quickly as possible. But once again, we still have a very long term view of the market as we at Mitsubishi Power, and we do see decarbonization will become a part of that. So whether through hydrogen or carbon capture, we're very bullish on both of those technologies.

Great. Thank you. Before jumping to the final part, is there anything that I missed that you would like to talk about that I should have asked?

No. I I would I will mention that, you know, one of the things that's exciting me about my role right now is really working across a lot of the different divisions through through MHI. We just opened an office in Dallas, Texas called the Data Center Energy Management Team, And really, they are looking at at implementing and becoming a one stop shop for data center customers. So they're looking at making investments in things like liquid cooling. They do data center maintenance right now. So the integration of that team with what we're doing on the power side is really kind of exciting future for what Mitsubishi Power, has to bring. So I'm really excited about how we develop that and kinda bring that out as a as a group of companies.

Great. Is there anything you would like to plug apart from that or promote or say to our audience?

No. Not at this point. I think, you know, we're we're we can't be happier with where the market is today. Right? But we do have a very big big challenge ahead of us is to really make sure we increase capacity, meet the market needs, do it reliably and effectively where we're meeting our customer demands.

That's good. And the final question, as always, what is your contouring view that you hold within the energy industry that maybe other people don't share with you?

Yeah. I will say, you know, utility customers are some of our best customers, and they, you know, historically have a reputation of not moving very fast, but we've experienced completely the opposite over the last couple of years. Responded to this market like you wouldn't believe, and, you know, we are very proud to be working with these utilities that are really delivering to the customers in a very, very time efficient manner.

Thank you, Peter. It was a pleasure to have you here today.

Yeah. Happy be here. Yeah. Thank you for the time.