33 - The changing face of energy with Jean-Paul Gillett (New Markets Originator @ bp)

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Hello, JP.

Hi, Quentin. How's it going?

Jet lagged, but alive and well. Thank you very much for coming in, and spending some time with us.

Thanks, very much.

We've got JP from BP. Two--

two acronyms to start with. So Jean-Paul from--

actually BP is just BP now.

It's just BP, Yeah.

There's no--

There's nothing behind it. Just BP.

And today--

I mean BP is--

BP is moving very fast in the world of renewables. And we're going to talk about smart grids, renewables, investments, open energy, and the acquisition hopefully, and other stuff.

Yeah.

But firstly, JP we've known each other. I think we spent--

I think the longest time we ever spent together was getting a 4-hour train down to Plymouth and back.

Exactly.

I was an OB in 2018. And I was at Kiwi Power, and we were building it behind the meter Tesla battery. Now, and you were--

you were it was an OB were all over it.

Exactly.

Yeah. And since then you've done a lot of stuff. So who are you? And why are you here?

Yeah. So who am I?

So Engineer by background, Civil Mechanical Engineer.

I worked offshore in seismic exploration for a few years. Decided, I wanted to transition myself from oil and gas to something clean. And--

Who is up with?

That was with Schlumberger. Yeah. And then, I decided I wanted to do something a little bit different. So I came to London, did a master's, ended up working for a startup at the time called Camborne Energy Storage. Looking at, I think they did the first 500 kilowatt Tesla battery in Europe.

This is Camborne capital. The original OGs.

Exactly. So I started there.

Then moved over to Zenobe. Spent of--

I think a little bit at Zenobe, then Orsted.

I think you had Bridget's on. So I worked a lot with Bridget's. Working--

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: I love Bridget.

Yeah, working a lot on system integration. Adding a lot of value around. You know, storage and other elements around that. And since January this year, how time flies. I am with BP in trading and shipping.

Cool and based in London?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Based in London. Canary Wharf.

And so what does BP--

what does BP trading and shipping do? Now, I guess.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: We trade and we ship.

We trade and ship. Trading what though?

So trade--

it's--

the commodities that BP takes from the upstream, deliveries to the downstream as well. So we're essentially mid-market, you could say. We take our own molecules, our own commodities, and we also take third parties. And market those to either downstream for our own self, or for third parties.

So I can't really speak about the other--

the other kind of molecules, but with electrons where I sit in European power it's all about bringing more power volume onto our books, and providing that downstream. So that could be through typical PPAs or through what we're doing now in energy storage.

So--

so BP is a buyer of power from renewable generators. Is that right?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Exactly.

PPAs and also an owner of these kind of assets too?

So as--

maybe I'll take a step back and BP has been on a big journey of reinventing itself as well, two years ago, Bernard Looney. Started a whole reinvent process where BP is becoming an integrated energy company from what it was in the past. And one of the key three pillars, and two of those are really around--

one of them is around renewables growth, zero carbon growth, and everything around that.

So we've won a couple of offshore wind bids in the UK. So we're going to have really big wind capacity coming online.

How big are they? Do you know?

Not sure off the top of my head, but you know gigawatt range. I think this year we have 5.8 gigawatts in future offshore wind projects worldwide. Some of these are joint ventures.

I think in the UK, its with the MVW. In Germany and--

sorry in the US, it's with Equinor.

We put in a bid in the Netherlands, which we're awaiting results soon. So I think there's going to be a massive build out from offshore wind in BP'S portfolio. And then, what we need to see is--

as T&S we're going to be off taking a lot of this volume.

T and S being?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Trading and shipping.

Trading us--

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah. So I think it's super interesting time.

TNS, like trading--

trading--

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: T and S.

Oh, OK.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

Like a--

like Toys R US kind of style.

Very BP.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

[LAUGHS]

So yeah, it's super exciting. Like, the whole transition we're going to have our own capacity, and of course, as I think, publicly mentioned lots of things around the Asian renewable hub. I think it's called in Australia, which is a huge project.

So super exciting, I must say. Like really exciting.

I've got to say from--

from a third party watching on. So it's--

we're not going to get into the politics right now. But for oil, big oil.

That's been--

it's tricky. There are so many billions of dollars that are deployed into fossil fuel-related assets.

And then, for a big oil company to transfer all of those into renewable, there are different speeds you can do that, and different ways you can do that. But of all the big oil companies, I think some of the commitments that BP is making are pretty wild.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

And show--

yeah, I mean all big oil gets a bad name for lots of different reasons. But from my perspective, it's pretty impressive how fast it's happening. Of course, it can go faster right?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

And it would be great for the world if it went faster. But also, there is a sort of--

there is a natural timing to this. There's almost a shortage of assets to--

to put it into. You haven't built all this stuff yet. So where do you put it?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

Yes. So I'm actually going to avoid pointing the finger on this podcast, and do the opposite and say, there's some incredible work happening. And just to see how many renewables people are going to work at these companies.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah. Exactly.

It's impressive.

So for me, like, when you consider my journey I was oil and gas, initially. Didn't really want to be there.

At the time, working offshore was not very pleasurable. So then I moved into, let's say, Orsted which is a darling of that community, and rightly so really huge ambitions, transitioned, massive offshore wind player.

I think of Orsted a bit like the Netflix of oil and gas, right?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: A little bit.

Because they were like the DVD by post business, and just went, nope not doing that anymore. It's all going to be digital.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Exactly.

Other businesses--

that was such a big risk, and it could not have paid off.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Exactly.

You only see the upside.

And so for me, being in Orsted, I looked at BP, and I saw the reinvent. And I was like, oh, that's really exciting. Look we're putting our money where our mouth is.

Like really ambitious targets, real at scale, and I was like, I want to be part of that. And so when the opportunity came, I was like actually, I want to be at the ground floor a little bit.

And ideally, as you said, your saying is, I want to help make it faster. I feel like the better I do my job, the more clean, green electrons I can bring on board, the faster BP will transition. So it's a bit of the--

It's really a passionate thing for me. Like, I really want to help drive this transition, and help drive the reinvent process at BP.

And you guys have also got the Lightsource partnership, right?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: We do.

I don't know if you want to talk about that. But is it 50/50?

I think so. Yeah. So I don't work that closely with Lightsource themselves. But of course, that's--

I think they're the leading solar developer in the world at the moment.

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: Yeah.

They're growing massively. So it's super exciting to have that part. Those joint venture opportunities as well. Like BP is doing so much at scale. Maybe not completely independently, like the joint ventures and offshore wind, but really using the opportunity and any kind of structure or company structure to grow that ambition.

So join ventures is a great way of doing it. Sharing that risk and the opportunities.

I mean, the other big difference I've noticed is senior managers at--

so the big oil that's choosing to change, and that's not everybody unfortunately. But a big oil that is making commitments, it's now right from the top rather than having a little side project that's renewables or--

it's like this is a change or die principle.

Which is--

which is big. Anyway, enough about that.

That's true--

so what kind of stuff is BP working on at the moment? So the companies you're invested in, projects you're working on, what does reinvention look like?

Yeah. So I think reinvention has three core pillars.

And it's--

I'm going to misphrase some of the strategy I think from it's off my head. But it's the advantage hydrocarbons one of them.

So instead of going into every market trying to look for hydrocarbons, it's going to be ones which actually deliver the best shareholder value, but also low emissions because there's a goal by 2030 to lower emissions in a hydrogen hydrocarbon upstream business. But again--

When we say hydrocarbons, we mean oil and gas?

Exactly. Yeah. So I don't sit in my team, so this is a little bit away from my comfort zone there. But then on the other side we have two pillars, which are really interesting to me. Which are the growth in low carbon generation. And then the other side, which is convenience and mobility. So the growth in low carbon generation is what I mentioned earlier, around massive growth in offshore wind across our core markets.

I think publicly out there, various joint ventures in the US, as I mentioned. The UK, Netherlands, I think even in Japan. So really scaling up the offshore wind. Because I think that goes really hand in hand with offshore experience in general. Then you have the solar development with Lightsource.

But I think standalone solar within BP also in certain markets. When you have a convenience and mobility, which is like the pulse network which is really--

like, it's one of--

it's the fastest--

one of the fastest growing EV networks in Europe.

These are chargers, right?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Chargers. Yeah, Yeah. And like, rapid EV chargers as well, which is core to the strategy of pulse. And I think in the BP around network in Germany, is one of the lar--

it's the largest in Germany, I believe. So that adds really interesting component of growth of demand and unelectri--

electrification of a massive sector, which is transport. So--

It's like convenience and mobility.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yes.

That's nice. I like the word "convenience."

What else comes under convenience?

So our convenience offering. So when you stop at a petrol station, you have an [? NMS. ?]

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: Like a convenience stores?

Literally.

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: Ah, OK.

Yeah. Yeah. So you have, you what--

you go to a petrol station, and--

we have a partnership with Marks & Spencer's to have nice products there.

Because so much better than the world being cafe, can I say?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Oh, really?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Well, all be in cafes is part of that.

No, yeah I know but--

just when you pull up to a BP, and have got the ultimate prawn sandwich, it's a big favorite in our family.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: There you go.

When you pull up to BP to fill up the car, and anyway it's so much better than why I've been. So much better than a pastie. Anyway, so convenience and mobility. Yeah. And so, with EV is obviously, even if you have rapid charging, you're still going to be at a location for 15, 20 minutes if you want a decent amount of charge. So having a nice time or a convenience offering there is suitable.

Oh, I get it.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Makes sense.

It's like a charging experience.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Exactly. And the whole thing is customer satisfaction. Charge fast with rapid charging. Have the convenience fare as well.

So those are sides that from a trading and shipping the T&S side, I find very interesting because we have the growth in supply, and then we have the growth in demand. And for T&S the trading and shipping, sat in the middle. That's a really interesting opportunity, and supplying, and taking those electrons.

And you guys--

so the T the trading and shipping bit. Do you do trading and shipping all--

with all other businesses and global markets, I assume. Not just between your supply and demand bits of the business. Those two pillars.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

So you'll be hedging out contracts, and doing all the big stuff as well?

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But, what a traditional trading organization would do as well? But I think all of these originate from doing the--

well, helping your internal business first, and then looking for also other opportunities.

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: Cool.

Yeah.

So one of the things I wanted to ask you about because it gets quite a lot of air time--

I'm particularly working at a startup in the space, is Launchpad?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yes.

Launchpad. BP Launchpad? Or Launchpad BP? I'm not really sure which way around it is.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Launchpad BP?

Launchpad BP.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

So what's that about?

So I think BP has always taken an interest in smaller companies. And how you could integrate them, and use them to deliver on our strategy or the greater corporate strategy. And I think BP Launchpad--

you know I'm not sat there again, so I can't go into exactly their strategy, and everything they're doing. But let's say, we'll use Open Energy as an example.

Open Energy is an interesting company that's been around for a while.

And basically an opportunity to use the skills and expertise and IP that a company like that has to help enable us to meet our greater strategy. So again, renewables growth or convenience and mobility side. So if you can create an area where you can incubate some interesting companies, bring them in.

But maybe don't drown them with the whole BP process which rightfully a company like BP has lots and lots of processes for a reason. But sometimes with a smaller company that can stifle innovation, can stifle that creativity that they'd need to scale up.

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: Definitely.

So having a Launchpad BP helps protect them, and incubate them to a point where either they're integrated or they go off by themselves.

Well, yeah. Let's just touch on integration for a second because I think--

yeah, I've worked on both sides. I was at Centrica, and Centrica bought some businesses. They bought Restore and some other folks. And then, when I was at cube power, there was the NG transaction, so NG bought just before I left, majority stake in Kiwi.

And that ended up being fully integrated.

And integrating small--

I know this isn't what we came to talk about, but integrating small startups or startups into big, big businesses is really hard to do. Because it's a people problem more than anything. So how does that work--

for example, you mentioned open energy there.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

Open energy which is--

that demand side response, lots of battery optimisation, a bit of a darling really the industry.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

How is BP thinking about integrating Open Energy? And how do you work together?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah. So I think there's obviously a process of the--

let's say, system integration is one.

How can we deliver a joint product offering. That's one thing. Then of course, as you rightly said the people element is super important. And I think the interesting thing about Launchpad BP and sorry--

what Launchpad BP does with Open Energy for example, and what let's say, we do in BP is that we're trying to integrate in a way that they are still maintained in this innovation area.

They're in a different office to us in some ways, from trading and shipping. So they can still keep up some of that startup mentality and that innovation, while still being part of a greater BP. And then, vice versa we can use the innovation side. And I think it all starts with communication, and collaboration, and understanding. They're very knowledgeable in their area.

So we're not over here to kind of come in and tell them what to do. We can learn a lot from them. And the way let's say, that Open Energy is working with trading and shipping specifically, is around close collaboration. They come over to our offices, we go over to theirs. We have weekly meetings with each other.

But essentially, they're still running somewhat independently, and not being let's say, somewhat smothered by the BP process. So I think it creates a very good equal relationship in that everyone is still playing to their strengths, everyone is still using or everyone still has their own culture and values. But we're still assimilating slowly between the two.

Yeah. The problem come--

I'm not going to just talk about problems, there's those benefits right? But a problem come when you have one person in the startup, and one person in the main business that both do the same job. And then they're both--

they're both doing them slightly differently. And at some point, someone puts them together and goes, right, you two work together. And it just is difficult. That said, there are a lot of efficiencies.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

Although, in mergers, often efficiencies means something else. But we--

hopefully, that doesn't--

that doesn't happen most of the time.

I think in this case, it doesn't. Because let's say, the people who are in Open Energy have a specific skill set. We have a specific skill set in Trading and Shipping.

Why would we acquire a company and then get rid of that skill set? In some ways.

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: Yeah.

So I think we're complementary. So let's say, I'm a what you call a power originator, or a new markets originator is my official title, and I have a certain set of skills, which I was hired for, and certain set of responsibilities. When I look at my counterparts in Open Energy, they have a slightly different set of skills, different responsibilities.

So we complement each other, and we work together to try, and deliver the most value between the two of us. So I think it's understanding that everyone has their place. And how we can work together has been key to how we work. So I think it's working personally.

No. I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. Anyway we went down the rabbit hole there.

Coming back to batteries, so what--

what is BP's strategy for batteries?

So we are let's say, member or an anchor member of a long duration energy storage council. Because we do see the value and flexibility. I think you probably had people on your podcast before talking at length around the value of flexibility, and a variable renewable energy world with everyone wanting baseload power. So there's a fundamental mismatch there. So having flexibility is super key.

So energy storage falls very neatly under that bracket of flexibility. So I think there is a recognition of a value of it. And I think that recognition comes through what trading and shipping is doing, and I'm doing looking at battery storage opportunities in the market from third parties. Wherever we go into ownership, I couldn't tell you just yet.

So what do you guys--

so do you guys provide an optimization service?

We do. So I think that's why we have--

I've mentioned Open Energy quite a few times.

We work closely on them because they provide the optimization service to our route to market. So we're a joint proposition.

So they're the tech in the optimization and the control

And you guys are the market access, the big trade, that--

all that good stuff?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah, exactly.

OK. So you guys are working together pretty closely, huh?

That's it. Yeah. I was just--

I was just at Open Energy's office before coming here. They're at our office--

I think most of them are at our office today. In Canary Wharf.

We're working really quite closely together.

And what about--

so beyond batteries, what are BP's other bets on the energy transition? We talked about generating assets. But what are the big things that BP believes or is betting on?

Well, hydrogen for one. I think our stated ambition is to have 10% of the hydrogen market in our core markets.

Considering our core markets are some of the core markets in the world you could imagine. That's a big bet. And I think hydrogen.

So, what does that mean? Does that mean 10% of like the electric production? Or does that mean?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: I think TB is exactly the details--

of 10%--

Emission, distribution, production, supply everything. That'd be--

that's a bigger 10%.

It's a bit--

bigger 10%. Maybe production is one. But certainly, it's a big ambition either way you look at it. If it's supply, if it's production, if it's anything.

I think it's a huge ambition.

And it kind of dovetails really well with the old oil and gas business, you could say. It's another molecule that needs to be transported, it needs to be shipped, it needs to be stored, it needs to be produced. It needs to be produced in a clean, low carbon way, which offshore wind helps with that.

So I think it's--

it's one that plays to a lot of strengths. And then, of course, the EV side. And one I said earlier around being an anchor member of long duration energy storage council, I think is quite certainly an interesting one.

It's not right? Because a lot of future energy system technologies are offshore. Right?

Because the world will be dominated by offshore wind, I believe anyway. Yeah. And then with the amount of build up we need for that is so big that we're going to have to go deep in deep waters.

And a lot of the expertise in operating in deep waters is in the oil and gas industry.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Exactly.

So there is a huge crossover there. Actually, going back to what you said right at the start of this podcast, you worked at Schlumberger offshore.

What were you doing offshore with Schlumberger? That sounds very exciting.

Yeah. So I was in seismic exploration. So I was spending--

I think a long strip of seven weeks, but on average five weeks at a time offshore.

I'm working for companies like BP and others.

Doing reservoir monitoring or exploration. So looking for those hydrocarbon deposits, which is really exciting. You know, straight out of uni, put on a boat, sent off to weird, and wild corners of the world.

What sort of weird, weird and wild course?

Like a Newfoundland in--

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: Oh, wow.

--in Canada.

Gulf of Mexico of course, quite a few times. Offshore Scotland.

You know, Shetland Islands and others. So around I'd say.

Wow. There's a whole range of outfits you need for those.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You go from working in Singapore, to working in northern Canada. It's quite something.

Yeah, it sounds like quite the adventure. Anyway, coming back to what BP is up to. So you guys are--

you're involved with long duration energy storage.

And how--

how is BP thinking about how you're going to deploy that? Because at the moment, it's quite uncertain around. Where that fits?

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So if--

you know, I think it's very clear that the world needs to find a solution to the variability of renewable energy. And batteries are a key part of that, but they're the first step.

So I think part of being an anchor member of long duration energy storage council is to be part of this community of other companies. Either OEM, so like the original equipment manufacturers who helped build this new innovative technology, or being part of the people who probably purchase, and develop, and build it out.

It's really interesting to be part of these forums because I don't think anyone knows yet how it's going to work. Because if you were to build a long duration energy storage project now, it wouldn't be in the money. Because you'd lose a lot of money unless you have a small-scale project where it has innovation funding.

So I think trying to commercially deploy these longer duration energy storage technologies is a really interesting challenge, and whoever cracks that will have the ability to deliver what a lot of people want in a market. Which is baseload green power. Or like 24/7 power as like the Google's, and others in the world want. So I think in my view, being an anchor member of such an organization is crucial to start to learn, to upskill, to understand how we do this.

And I think the UK government has seen that long duration storage is important. They have had the innovation funding as well. So I think we're all on a path that way, but even BP doesn't have a view. I don't think the long duration energy storage council has a view.

It all comes down to how do you make this--

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: How do you make the money?

How do you make the money. Right?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: It always comes back this come from. Exactly.

It's tricky. But then again, in traditional long duration energy storage schemes. So beyond pump storage, so beyond an oil rig and those folks. A seasonal storage is currently done by for example, Centrica has rough storage facility offshore.

Which is about to be subsidized by the government. Rightly so right? Because you can see why they're not investing in it because the money's not there. So--

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Exactly.

There is an argument to be set--

to be made that long duration energy storage is going to have to be subsidized one way or another. Unless you completely redesigned the markets over a longer time frame, which I just don't think is going to happen.

Yeah. It's tough I think so. But--

but it has to happen as you're saying, for security supply reasons, which is the fundamental kind of--

well, the fundamental regulatory legislative reason behind.

Some of the targets is National Grid, yes so has. It is delivering security supply. And if we want a zero thermal, zero carbon system, we need long duration energy storage.

And I think what you're--

I think talking about earlier around capabilities in BP? Let's say, for example, you've got compressed air energy storage, which requires either salt caverns or reservoirs. That sounds a lot like the traditional hydrocarbon business in my view. And so when you--

when you start to look at that, I think companies like BP have the scale, but where's the money? But I'm an electrical engineer, and people--

people are used to dealing with pipes.

Will do anything to keep on dealing with pipes. Right?

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: It's very true.

I believe the future is probably closer to solid state.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: OK.

But we'll see. We'll see.

But there's hydrogen storage as well.

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: There is hydrogen storage. Yeah.

I think that--

it is the smallest molecule. There is a lot of--

a lot of problem trying to store it. So when you look at the renewables build out, and you look at the excess capacity on a really windy, sunny day. That--

those electrons should not be lost.

QUENTIN SCRIMSHIRE: . Agreed. Yes.

They should be put into something. If that's hydrogen, solid state, or it's probably going to be a combination of everything as I think I always come to the conclusion. There's never a silver bullet. It is a combination of technology--

Apart from gravity, it's not going to go into gravity.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: It's not going to go into gravity.

Sorry gravity guys. It didn't work out.

I'm

not so sure about them as well. But like compressed energy storage I think makes sense, and those types of storages make sense.

Yeah.

It's funny actually. It feels very much like a--

the life of Brian, people's front of Judea when we start dissing other technologies in storage. Because we're all going in the same direction. Yeah. But there are some in my view, fairly silly ones.

So now is the opportunity to talk about something you want to talk about.

Because I've asked you lots of questions here. What about anything you want to talk about the BP's working on that you think is really cool. Or you want to plug?

So I--

I plugged it a little bit already the Open Energy-BP partnership and batteries. I think it makes sense.

Open Energy -- is a very well-respected company that's been in the market a while. People know it. Has the capabilities, it has a tech.

And I think bringing in the BP side to it really enhances what we've already have. And so I'm really excited to work with Open Energy and bringing that to market, and seeing what we can do. And from my point of view as well, from the BP'S point of view, I really like--

we're looking at the new core markets also for Europe.

So I sit in European power. So UK, part of Europe sometimes.

The rest of the time, you know Germany, Spain, all of these markets are developing. Moving super quick, building out renewables. And then they have the issues around the dispatch ability of it and everything. So I think from my point of view going in, and delivering on these markets is really exciting.

And BP has a capability to do it. Has a scale, has the ambition, so.

So while you're talking that, it sounds like as a party going on.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: It does.

Behind us. It's not as good as this party. That's for sure. But there's something going on.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Yeah.

All right. Cool.

The last thing I want to say is we're interested to see--

there's been all big commitments. Right? About divestment from fossil into renewables. And I guess, what I'm excited to see is the money go where the mouth is, right?

And that's--

that's why we need people like you working at BP to make it happen.

All the folks who are moving from renewables into to making this transition happen.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Exactly.

And I really hope it does. And fingers crossed. We've just got to find enough assets to deploy into?

Exactly. And you know I think, one of the biggest issues is grid connections, planning. There's a lot of--

a lot of red tape, and a lot of issues that don't allow this to happen at scale.

All right. JP. Thanks very much for coming on to the pod. If you listen to this, please do hit subscribe. And you'll make it easy to produce a very, very happy. And see you next time. Thanks very much.

JEAN-PAUL GILLET: Thank you.

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