Clean power 2030 with Joe Bush (Market Analyst @ Modo Energy)

One of the biggest parts of it is the growth of renewables.

And within the report, it describes it as Herculean. What's Herculean about it?

So we currently have around fifty gigawatts of installed renewable capacity here in Britain, and the targets in Clean Power twenty thirty set that to be between one hundred and twenty and one hundred and thirty gigawatts ish of renewable capacity. If you kind of compare those historical build out rates, say, for offshore winds, we would need to have up to five gigawatts of offshore wind coming online per year between now and two thousand and thirty. And we've historically had about a gigawatt coming online. But at the moment, we pay or NISO pays around one point five billion pounds on these balancing costs to manage the transmission constraints, which works out roughly about fifty pounds per household. If we left the network exactly as it was, NISO say that that cost would go up to twelve point seven billion pounds per year by twenty thirty. So that's an increase of four hundred and fifty pounds per year for each household. Politically, not viable.

Up to a hundred and thirty gigawatts of renewable generation will be required for Great Britain to reach its clean energy targets as laid out in the National Energy System Operators Clean Power twenty thirty report. With fifty gigawatts of renewable generation currently on the system, there is a long way to go to meet these targets.

In today's episode, MODO Energy Market Analyst, Joe Busch joins Ed Porter to discuss what this Herculean effort will involve, what challenges the industry might face along the way, and what it means for battery energy storage. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit subscribe so you never miss an episode and give us a rating wherever you listen. Let's jump in.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Transmission Today. I'm joined by Joe. Joe, welcome.

Thank you, Ed. Pleasure to be here.

And Joe is one of Modo's analysts. So, Joe, perhaps we can kick off by asking you, who are you and what do you do at Modo?

Yeah. Great. So I'm a market analyst here at Modo. So I'm in our research team here publishing research and analysis and focusing on our forecast products. So we produce a forecast of future power market prices and battery revenues, and I help to kind of digest the key trends there. So I spend my working life thinking about the future of power markets and get, yeah, quite excited about new visions and plans for what that might look like and try and compare that to our own internal view here at Moda.

Okay. And from the future to the past, what does your kind of, like what's what's your history in this space?

Yep. So I've been at Modo for just over a year now. I started my professional life as a carbon accountant, a sustainability consultancy.

So working out for big corporates what their carbon footprint is. From there, I moved to TriplePoint who are an investment manager, so kind of investing in energy projects, so renewables, energy storage, and I got a kind of view of the decisions that investors were making around these kind of infrastructure projects, infrastructure investment, and that kind of thing, and then came to Moda.

So how do you kind of like so it's like how how do you turn the kind of concept of things like flexibility into an investable piece, and how does that then track the capital to get built, which is probably a pretty critical part of how we're gonna think about Clean Power twenty thirty.

Exactly. Yeah. I think a lot of these plans are very expensive, and they have to make sense from an investment point of view as well. If you're managing somebody's money, somebody's pension to to put into these projects, it needs to needs to be viable.

Yeah. And we've and we've kind of snuck that into the conversation, Clean Power twenty thirty. But last week, we saw a publication on Clean Power twenty thirty. Who produced that publication and what was it?

So that was produced by the national energy system operator, NESO, here in GB, and it's kind of a legacy of when the new Labour government came into power earlier this year. One of their manifesto promises was to make Britain a clean energy superpower, I think they called it, and a kind of corollary of that was we wanted to achieve clean power by two thousand and thirty. So NISO, as it's now known, one of its first tasks was to go away and figure out how we do that essentially. And they've written a whole report on it called Clean Power twenty thirty in which they give the key takeaways and the things that we would need to do to achieve clean power by twenty thirty.

Yeah. And maybe starting with that exact thing, clean power twenty thirty, like, what what does that mean as a target? Like, what what are we actually aiming for? Yeah. Exactly.

So I think that was kind of their first challenge. Right? It was, like, not the kind of most well defined brief from the government. So their first challenge was to kind of look at the system and create a definition for clean power by twenty thirty. So the one that they've come up within the report, but not necessarily the one that the government has to use in the future, is that it's a kind of power system where ninety five percent of generation comes from clean power sources. So that's renewables, biomass, nuclear, and there's an additional five percent that's coming from unabated gas generation. So, say, a CCGT that doesn't have any carbon capture and storage technology attached to it.

Yeah. And so if you if you kind of imagine, like, where we might spend that five percent of of kind of thermal or gas fired generation In a kind of standard year, does that mean we're gonna be running gas for, like, five percent in every period, or is it gonna look different to that?

Yeah. So I think the distribution will be much lumpier than that, really. So the way that Nissan have seen it is that we would have a similar amount of gas generation capacity on the system in twenty thirties we do now. It's just used much less frequently. So to give an example of when gas generation might be used, last week here in the UK and I think across a lot of Europe, we had pretty awful weather, definitely not a a sunny start to November. So still cloudy, dark, very little wind and solar generation on the system, and we had to spin up a lot of gas to compensate for the drop off in renewable generation.

So kind of increasing prices and, yeah, that gas was compensating for for the loss there.

It was it was quite interesting because in lots of places, people kind of came on to various places, like, I don't know, LinkedIn and said, oh, you know, this is a real problem. Like, look at this. This is a this is a real problem. How do we do this?

And I wonder if, actually, kind of part of that definition around clean power is saying, well, yes, that that, like, that is gonna be a difficult period, but look at what happened. We we kind of we had those conditions. We had high prices. High prices got thermal plants turn on.

And, yes, we had some high price periods, but we were able to deal with that because we have the gas fleet that we can rely on for that particular period of time. I suppose it's then how do we go beyond twenty thirty that's perhaps the interesting part of of how how how do we get to work like a fully clean power system.

Yeah. Exactly. I think those it's those incremental extra percent, so ninety six, ninety seven, ninety eight percent clean power will be, you know, each percentage point harder than the last essentially as you, yeah, try and force that last little bit of gas off the system. So I think, yeah, the the definition that Nissan have come up with is kind of a sweet spot where we don't have to spend kind of loads and loads to eliminate that little bit of gas generation at the end, but enough that kind of the majority or the vast majority of power is coming from clean generation sources.

And we're starting to hear some rumblings around, like, potentially things like strategic reserve being looked at, which is kind of similar to the coal fired contracts that were existing, which is this idea that there'll be some plant that's available if we need it, but it won't be included in the main wholesale market.

Yeah. Exactly. I think because, yeah, if you're if you're having the same amount of gas generation capacity online, but but you're using it a lot less. Obviously, commercially, there's investors in those gas plants. They need that to to make sense to stay online, really. If they have flat costs for being online and ready to go, they need to recoup that somehow. So I'm sure that the government will have to look at, yeah, something like the strategic reserve in that case as well.

One of the interesting things from the from the markets forum that came out, yesterday was talking about the gas plant, how some of that gas plant is getting slightly older in life. And so there is definitely some thinking that might need to be done around how do we kind of keep that gas plant on, but not having it running for for for long periods of time. So I think it's interesting kind of dynamic going on within the space. But let's get back to kind of clean power twenty thirty. So one of the biggest parts of it is the growth of renewables.

And within the report, it describes it as Herculean. What's Herculean about it?

So it's probably the kind of unprecedented build out rate of renewables that is Herculean, I guess, alongside all of the support and infrastructure as well.

But to focus specifically on renewable build out, so we currently have around fifty gigawatts of installed renewable capacity here in Britain, and that's been kind of that's come online or being built out really, I guess, in earnest over the past fifteen years or so. And the targets in Clean Power twenty thirty set that to be between hundred and twenty and a hundred and thirty gigawatts ish of renewable capacity. So more than doubling the installed renewable capacity, so wind farms, solar generation in five years compared to the kind of fifteen years over which we've built out that initial fifty gigawatts.

Okay. So the rates of renewable deployment is going to fly.

How are we going to achieve that?

It's gonna be difficult, I think. So if you, yeah, if you kind of compare those historical build out rates, say, for offshore wind, we would need to have up to five gigawatts of offshore wind coming online per year between now and twenty thirty, and we've historically had about a gigawatt coming online.

So the this kind of unprecedented build out of renewables, we have this growth in renewables up to a hundred and twenty, a hundred and thirty gigawatts from the fifty gigawatts today. The rate of that build out, how does that compare to what we see on the system today?

Yeah. It's quite significantly higher, really. So for offshore wind, as an example, the report calls offshore wind the backbone of this renewable system, so that sees the highest build out. And that has up to five gigawatts of offshore wind coming online each year up from a kind of historical rate of about one gigawatt per year. And to put that into perspective, so the the Hornsea array of wind farms, so three kind of record breaking big wind farms off the Yorkshire coast, that is about five gigawatts in total once Hornsea three comes online. And that array kind of covers an area similar to the size of Greater London. So we need that coming online every year between now and twenty thirty to meet that build out of offshore wind.

K. And actually to enable that, right, so it's both, yes, we need this kind of this vision of where we're going to and we need the financing for these projects. But there's also a logistics side of this. Right? So how do we get the supply chain to be able to handle that kind of increase? So if year on year, we typically add one or one to two gigs of of of wind, how do we step that up to these new record levels?

Yeah. It's it's tough. And I think so there was some analysis recently from, Regen who looked at the typical lead times for these projects.

And they I think they said for offshore wind, it was typically from submitting planning permission to an operational wind farm, took around seven years on average, and that's to kind of do all the paperwork side of things, the plan inside, but then the kind of lead times on those significant components that you would need for a project like that, the cabling, the transformers, the wind turbines themselves, it all takes a long time to source. You obviously have to get all of those components together in one place to to build the project, and, yeah, they take a long time to build out.

And I think that's probably the kind of one of those big things about Clean Power twenty thirty is that we're essentially into twenty twenty five already.

Planning for big projects can take up to seven years, as you say, for offshore wind, and I think it's similar for transmission build out. And then you need to buy, like, big bits of power electronics. So we're not talking about kind of the small inverters you might see at home, but you're talking about kind of the one three two kV transformers.

These are kind of these are big bits of kit that might take two to three years to order.

And so if you kind of stack up the planning and the and the time to order these pieces, getting stuff done by twenty thirty, it feels like a lot of that will have to come from projects that are already already in flight.

Yeah. Exactly. So it probably have to come from, yeah, projects that are already in the pipeline, projects that, for example, have already secured contracts for difference in the allocation rounds there so that, yeah, kind of government subsidies for these things. So but the the rate of those wouldn't be enough to meet that five gigawatts per year. I think our wind build out that we project in our in our power market forecast, we have about three gigawatts per year on average kind of ramping up towards twenty thirty. So still a significant gap.

Still an incredible step up Yeah. But maybe not quite hitting the clean power twenty thirty target.

Maybe we'll come back to that in a second.

But with the with the build out of of wind alongside other forms of renewables, we we kind of have to get a network that matches it.

And so another part of clean power twenty thirty looked at looked at networks.

Yeah. Exactly. So I guess one of the kind of big problems with this renewable build out is getting the power from where it's generated, which is typically, say, offshore wind off the East Coast of England. So the Hornsea array that I mentioned earlier or kind of onshore wind in Scotland. You need to get all of that power from where it's generated down to where it's consumed, which is typically kind of where we are in Southeast England, London, those kind of big urban centers around the UK.

And to do that, you need to build out transmission infrastructure, essentially. So we have a kind of problem at the moment with constraint costs. So when it's really windy, for example, the wind that's generated in Scotland can't make its way down to where we are in London because of constraints on the transmission network. There's just not enough capacity to get it down here. So NISO currently has to curtail that wind in Scotland and ramp up what is typically kind of gas generation closer to these demand centers to control those constraints as well. So not only does that add more gas to the system, it also increased cost for consumers.

So I think without a significant build out of transmission alongside that renewable build out, it's gonna be expensive for consumers and difficult to meet that, ninety five percent level of clean Mhmm.

And maybe just a just a point on the constraints. Right? So each of those transmission lines that can carry power is rated for a certain amount of power. You can't run more power than that down it because you'll have things like overheating the lines, and then you have a risk of them breaking.

So so that that's kind of why it's it's it's limited. Okay. And just to maybe maybe actually one thing on the constraints. So you talked about ramp up of gas assets, but maybe actually this is a a nice opportunity to talk about a little bit of flexibility.

So we do also see storage assets being used for that as well. So it's not just a not just a gas play, I would say.

Yeah. Exactly. So that's, I guess, one of the big USPs of batteries, which is what we focus on mostly here at Moto Allde. So if you if you have a battery, say a battery located in Scotland, when those constraints develop and a wind farm in Scotland can't send its power down past the the b six boundary separated Scotland and England, a battery in Scotland can instead charge with that power and then release it when there's less constraints or when there's more demand. So they kind of smooth out the power flows and allow the NISO to kind of balance those transmission requirements.

Yeah. Maybe coming back to that constraint point because I think this is probably one of the most critical parts of the whole Clean Power twenty thirty, which is that we're building a lot of wind in Scotland because that's where the the sites are for the offshore wind, and that's where the best the best wind data is or the the literal the best wind. So the best wind speeds, the best consistency through the course of the year. And so people want to build wind turbines there with good reason. One of the issues that we have though is if the transmission lines don't get built out at the speed we expect, some of those constraint costs can be quite scary.

So already, like, quite an expensive cost of electricity to consumers. Like, what what what does the range of those constraint costs look like?

Yeah. It's it's pretty significant. I think the kind of cost of doing nothing and keeping the transmission network as it is is quite significant. So at the moment, we pay or NISO pays around one point five billion pounds in the the kind of year to date on these balancing costs to manage the transmission constraints, which works out roughly about fifty pounds per household in GB has to pay for that kind of rebalancing to manage those transmission constraints.

If we left the network exactly as it was, NISO say that that cost would go up to twelve point seven billion pounds per year by twenty thirty. So that's an increase of two four hundred and fifty pounds per year for each household. Yeah. So quite a significant monthly cost for the households that is probably politically not viable.

So that that's clearly not viable at, like, four hundred and fifty, pounds per household per year. But, obviously, Nissan got big plans to reduce those constraint costs via network build out. So they talked through this in Clean Power twenty thirty, but what do some of the other options look like for those constraint costs?

Yeah. So they have kind of a range of, I think, about eighty, eighty one projects that they would want to see kind of fast tracked to completion by twenty thirty. So I think they say that's, kind of a thousand kilometers of onshore transmission lines and then four and a half thousand kilometers of offshore transmission lines. So that's big, essentially similar technology to interconnectors. So running down from Scotland to the East Coast of England, these offshore cables that can kind of pipe power directly into the grids and bypass a lot of those current transmission constraints.

And NISO says that if all of those projects were to come online by twenty thirty, then the kind of cost would reduce down to three point six billion. So double what it is today, but still kind of not at that twelve point seven billion end of the range. So, yeah, though those transmission projects would kind of significantly reduce that that cost burden down to what would be probably more politically viable to for an end consumer to see on their energy bill each month essentially.

Yeah. And it also feels like there's kind of another kind of key part of this because at the same time as Clean Power twenty thirty, we've still got the the parts of Rima kicking around. And I think Desnares yesterday were talking about potential decision on national versus zonal within Rima within the next six months. So we're in November, so by April.

We'll see. We'll we'll we'll we'll see how those timelines hold up. But it feels like if one of the ways of kind of solving constraints is building out more transmission, That is a good way of resolving those constraints. But but the downside is that actually, if you try and solve all your constraints with just transmission lines, you can end up with kind of almost like a gold plated system.

So you spend loads of money on transmission, but you don't use a huge amount. And so, actually, the overall cost to consumer is kinda higher. And so things that are being looked at there are probably the two major ones would be one would be flexibility. But maybe let's talk about the Rhema design piece, which is a national system versus a zonal system.

How how might that change kind of what this looks like?

Yeah. Exactly. So I think a lot of these transmission costs would be based on national pricing. So you have a a single price across Britain, and there's no incentives for anybody to consume power. So whereas a load of the wind generation might be being generated in Scotland, there's no incentive for me as a kind of big, say, industrial user of power or a data center using a lot of power to locate in Scotland to use that power and minimize those transmission requirements.

So move towards a zonal pricing system, which is what a lot of people kind of advocate for, would see different prices in different parts of the country and kind of incentivizing demand to locate where generation is. And this is something you see in other countries as well. So Norway, for example, has a clear price gradient. There's a lot of renewable generation in the northern edge of Norway that can't make its way down south on the transmission network. There's a zonal price there, which means power there is a lot cheaper, and you get people like big data center companies wanting to locate their process in there to use that cheaper demand, essentially. So that could if we were to implement a zonal price here, that could kind of fundamentally change some of these transmission build out scenarios because you incentivize demand and generation to locate together, and you minimize the need to transmit power between the two.

Yeah. So we're not kind of saying you you can lift out this kind of North Sea wind wind farm and pop it in kind of the Thames. We're saying, actually, if you've got a data center that doesn't really mind too much where it is or if you've got some kind of industrial process that's that's kind of heavy demand, if you could incentivize it to go to Scotland, you might be able to save yourself some of the transmission build out.

Yeah. Exactly.

Interesting. Well, we've in in in the next six months, we'll, we'll find out.

Hopefully. We have to rewrite the report.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And then maybe to to the other side of it. So the so the flexibility side. So we've we've touched on this very quickly in terms of, how storage, for example, releases constraints in the system today.

And there's a there's a kind of a whole load of nuance around that because, there are some kind of some some technical pieces that we might maybe we won't go into. But at a high level, that that is, like, a way of releasing constraints. What does the report say about flexibility?

Yeah. So the report sees a big increase in the capacity of these flexible sources. So I guess, yeah, looking specifically at energy storage. So it has a role for battery energy storage, BEZ, and long duration storage, which is, I guess, technology agnostic, but could be seen as either pumped hydro storage or long duration batteries as well.

So for BEZ, it sees an increase from about the four and a half gigawatts that we have installed today up to between twenty three and twenty seven gigawatts, which is quite a significant build out. Again, I think that's higher than we have projected here at Modo based on the current pipeline of batteries that are in development, and it also sees an increase from about the three gigawatts of long duration storage up to around between five and eight gigawatts of storage. And, yeah, there'll have to be some incentives, I think, to get that storage online. I think particularly for long duration storage, we've not built any of that in Britain for forty years, I think, since the Norweg came online in the eighties.

So if they kind of want that to come online, there would have to be some kind of incentive there, I think, to to enable investment in those technologies as well.

It feels like of the things we talked about so far, offshore wind will go through allocation rounds to get a clear signal as to kind of how how much to build. And then we'll see transmission, which is already being planned and kind of has to already be planned because it takes quite a long time to come through. But clearly, there's a kind of a process for for building that out and a way to kind of for for that to be financed and built. But for flexibility, it kind of it feels almost like the odd one out in that it's kind of, like, the the kind of market will will say, let's just build this, and it'll happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I think, yeah, it's kind of left up to the market to to build out the storage, and I think partly that's probably, I guess, NISO is new in its role of central planning. They're used to planning these transmission build outs. They used to produce the network options assessment, the electricity tenure statement, and that kind of thing, but kind of haven't historically done as much of this more central planning of things like battery capacity or long duration storage.

So, yeah, I think there'll be probably need to be a bit more done there to to see how we incentivize those onto the system. But things that are currently in flight like the potential cap and floor scheme for long duration storage should go some way towards meeting that. So providing a level of revenue certainty to investors to enable them to invest in these projects that are kind of inherently risky and bring them onto the system.

And I I think that's kind of a it's really interesting really interesting point because I'm not actually sure that all all storage owners or investors are kind of crying out for more involvement or more of, like, essentially planned involvement. So if we kind of look at the pipeline for batteries out until twenty thirty, I think there's something like seventy gigs potentially that can be built, and Clean Power twenty thirty looks at about thirty gigs. And so forty gigs of those battery storage projects won't be built by by twenty thirty, just just kind of running the Clean Power numbers. And I think one of the one of the dangers with that kind of the LDAS scheme is it's kind of saying, okay. We essentially think this is required, and we're gonna kinda step in and try and make this happen.

I think it's kind of it's there's there feels like two parts here. One is kind of you allow private investors and private developers to make decisions about where to locate based on the connection cost they have, the the land agreements they have in place, and their kind of decisions about what they want to put where. And the other side of this is you have more central involvement and someone gets involved and says, okay, we think that this is the direction we want to go down and therefore these are the thirty gigawatts of projects we want to pull through. I'm not sure that developers in the UK would be that thrilled with that process. They'd be very thrilled if they were selected, but if they were in the forty gigs of projects that don't get selected Mhmm. I could see that being a really kind of hard process.

Yeah. It is a tricky one, and I think any kind of scheme design like that needs to be careful to not skew the market in any significant direction. And I think, yeah, it's probably important in the the scheme design, which is, I think, still being fleshed out importantly. Right?

So we don't have the the finalized details of what that scheme would look like. But I think any scheme that did come online would need to clearly define the problem that it's trying to solve. So if it wants eight hours storage, ten hours storage, and then be relatively agnostic about how that's solved as well to allow different technologies to compete and for the kind of market to find the best solution for that problem rather than, say, picking winners in, you know, a development pipeline of batteries, for example, which is, yeah, much more. Yeah.

I I think what developers probably wouldn't want to happen there.

So I think I think we've gone from kind of a general look at flexibility, and you've more explicitly talked about LDES there. So the long duration energy storage at LDES, that was is looking for battery projects that are longer than six hours. But in the first round of drafting was explicit that it didn't want lithium to be taking part. Now in the second round of drafting, it says something along the lines of only projects that are uneconomic will be ones that we will support. So they're effectively saying, there's a problem in the market. The market's not recognizing how valuable long duration storage is, and so we have to step in. We We have to step in and do something about it and pay extra money to to incentivize people to turn up.

And then they're saying or in the first draft, they were saying, and that can be everything but lithium. And now they're saying, okay. If the lithium's not economic, then it could come in. That's kind of that's kind of where we've got to. But this is all this feels like actually it's quite nuanced, but maybe we should just take a step back from it and say, the whole point of doing this is because you want the lowest cost to consumer. And so if you if I kind of say to you, well, like, how would you design Elders? Like, what what what would that look like for you?

Yeah. I think it is interesting. So I think, yeah, I would, as you say, take a step back rather than saying specifically we don't want lithium, we don't want technologies that aren't commercially viable, whatever. I think to take a step back and work out the need for a specific duration. So if they look at the system in twenty thirty, for example, we have this a hundred and thirty gigawatts of renewable capacity online, and they do some sensitivity analysis, say, with different weather years, different weather scenarios, and see, actually, we have, like, a critical period of really high prices, potential loss of load that lasts over x hours, of duration for which we need storage. That storage is not commercially viable because this is a one one in every two years, three years, five years scenario, and nobody's gonna build it for those, you know, high prices in one week of the year. That's the that's the problem that they need to solve that the market is not gonna solve itself.

And then they can go back and say, right, we're we need twelve hours. What is the what is the most the cheapest cost to consumers essentially technology to provide that twelve hours of storage that we think we need to provide a resilient kind of energy secure system in twenty thirty.

And I think just that's kind of similar to what we've seen in other regions. Right? So if you look at Australia, if you look in California, quite developed storage markets. Mhmm.

That's kind of what they've what they've looked for, and they've been kind of happy to accept what comes through that has that wants to go into those durations. I think when we look at lithium, we see, we see a lot of kind of two to four hour systems being developed. Mhmm. But not so many in the six to eight.

And so Yeah. It'll be really interesting to see whether that scheme starts to incentivize and bring through some of those some of those longer duration pieces. Yeah. I suppose the last part of the flexibility question is, okay, they want twenty five to thirty gigs of of of flex Mhmm.

Outside of kind of there there there doesn't seem to be that that process in place right now to enable that. The the work that seems to be going on is kind of the connections work Mhmm. And things around things like skip rates within the control room. Yeah.

But is there any indication in terms of extra work or extra incentive that might be given through Clean Power twenty thirty to bring some of those or to bring that thirty gigs of of of storage to life?

Yeah. So I I don't think specifically, I guess, the the big enablers would be those grid connection piece. So a big part of the Clean Power twenty thirty is accelerating the rate at which people can get grid connections to bring this power online. As you said, there's a a massive pipeline of battery projects that are wanting to come online that developers have ready to go essentially, but are limited by the rate of those grid connections. So I think that will be one of the the key enablers for the technology there. I guess on the longer duration side, the potential cap and floor, although that's, yeah, not specifically mentioned in the report. But, yeah, aside from that, I think, yeah, there'll probably have to be work to be done if we are to achieve that twenty seven gigawatts of batteries to work out how that's incentivized, whether that needs any kind of central planning type support or whether the market itself brings that online.

Okay, Joe. Well, thank you very much for for running through everything on Clean Power twenty thirty. Two questions to finish up. So first one, have you got anything you'd like to plug?

Yes. So as I mentioned at the start, I'm producing research and analysis here at Modo. So published a piece yesterday on Clean Power twenty thirty. So looking at we have a big free section at the start where we look at some of the specific plans, some of the things we've talked about today, and then a section at the end as well specifically on how that impacts batteries and battery revenues, which is, yeah, what we what we kind of focus on here. But, yeah, I'd plug that. My my research output here at Modo.

Okay. Incredible incredible plug of your own work. Well done. Thank you. Maybe I'll plug on on that.

So if ever you wanna get in touch with anyone who's put together a research piece, feel free to to kind of go through the platform and get in touch, or you can email Joe directly and, yeah, talk talk through how that comes together. And maybe the last question for me is on what are your hopes for the kind of clean power twenty thirty? What does an ideal outcome look like for you?

Yeah. I think it'd be interesting to see where it goes. So in terms of next steps from this report, so the government told me so to kind of go away and come back with how they could achieve clean power by twenty thirty. I think the ball is now kind of firmly in the government or Ed Miliband's court to work out how to interpret this, digest it down, and come up with a kind of actionable plan.

And I think in doing so, he will obviously be keen to minimize the total cost to consumers as well. I think that's one of the big reasons for doing all this. It's to minimize these kind of supply shocks we have with gas prices driving consumer costs through the roof to make a kind of more resilient and secure energy system. So I think overall in terms of the ideal outcomes here, we've obviously seen that this is going to be very expensive in terms of the initial upfront investment and the kind of required infrastructure build for all of this to happen.

I think in terms of how that gets piped through to the end consumer, there should be some kind of careful analysis of what would be what would be best there. So keeping in mind those potential constraint costs, for example, whether we move to a zonal system, that kind of thing, and just, yeah, always keeping in mind how we can minimize the cost of the consumer, get everybody on board with this net zero power system, and not make it some crazy expensive thing that you see on your energy bill every month, I think will be really important and the kind of crucial element that lets all of this fall into place.

Hundred percent agree. Joe, thank you very much.

Great. Thanks, Ed.

Thank you for listening to Transmission, a Modo Energy podcast. Transmission delivers conversations from industry leaders and experts exploring energy markets and the operations and technologies related to grid scale battery energy storage. Check out our other episodes by searching Transmission wherever you get your podcasts.

Check out the Energy Academy, our video crash course on how markets in Great Britain and ERCOT work, or head to motoenergy dot com to see our written research. Thanks for listening.