Reaching Net-Zero with young energy professionals with Sandy Kelly & Saima Rasool

Like, I think traditionally when you think of energy, you think of a hard hat, you think of an engineer, someone sitting in sort of like a power room. Whereas now, we need the comms people, the lawyers, the project managers, procurement people, commercial, whatever it is. There's such a breadth of energy jobs and it's you don't necessarily have to have, like, a specific degree or specific background.

You can really just go in with the skills that you have, and they're so transferable.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back for another installment of transmission.

Today's episode is hosted by moto analyst Shania Holness McKenzie, and our guests are Saima Rasul, head of strategy at two billion strong, and Sandy Kelly, flexibility leader, EDF and vice chair of the Young Energy Professionals Forum. The conversation covers their experiences as young professionals in the energy industry and the sort of opportunities available as the industry expands to meet net zero goals. There are loads of resources in the show notes of this episode, so be sure to check them out. And hit subscribe so you never miss an episode.

Let's jump in.

Hiya. It's Shania, and I'm one of the analysts in the research team here at Modo, and you're listening to the Transmission Podcast.

So today's podcast is a little bit different to what we usually do, and it comes off the back of National Grid releasing some data, which says by two thousand and fifty, to help with the transition to net zero, we're gonna need another four hundred thousand people to join the energy sector. So based on this, I am joined with Sandy and Saima on today's podcast.

So it would be great for both of you to introduce yourselves, see if you can give us a rundown of who you are, what role you do, what that means, and what got you into that, how you got there as well would be really helpful. So if we start with you, Sandy.

Yeah. Happy to. So I'm Sandy. Day job, I do work in flexibility and route to market service provision, but not the day job.

I moonlight as, the vice chair of, of the Young Energy Professionals Forum. And so it's, been going on for ten years now, and we essentially look to provide initiatives, events, site visits for young professionals looking to either get into energy or an or an energy at the moment. We we sort of work on the motto of connect, develop, and inspire. So we're looking to put on events that connect young professionals with each other, develop their skills.

We put on crash courses for event for certain subjects, and also kind of just, you know, general inspire them to to be those leaders of tomorrow. And so we do that through engagement with senior stakeholders and also through our annual YEP Awards as well, which as well as being the vice chair, I went for rising star and got rejected, so it's fine. You know? It's fine.

I'm still vice chair. But it's it's fantastic. We put on events every month, and and we couldn't do that without a really great steering committee and volunteers that that give up their time to put these events on, as well as a lot of help from Energy UK as well. So more than happy to come and and talk about young professionals in energy and and how we can really propel ourselves to help Britain achieve net zero, really.

Amazing. Thank you very much. And Saima, what about you as well? So little intro into your role, what you're doing at the moment, how you got there, and anything else you think could be good to add.

Amazing. Thank you. So my name is Saima Rasool. I'm currently volunteering as the head of strategy, a not for profit called Two Billion Strong.

So two billion is in reference to the two billion Muslims on the planet. And it's all about getting more representation for the Muslim voice in climate action as they're actually disproportionately more affected by climate change. Prior to this, I have a background in ESG risk and strategy consulting at KPMG, where I was also part of the something called the Leaders twenty fifty Committee. So Leaders twenty fifty is KPMG's external facing network, all about getting more young professionals in the sustainability space.

And then prior to that, I also have a past life in the energy regulator Ofgem, which is where I did quite a few rotations all across different realms of energy.

And, yeah, I was also a COP twenty eight UK youth delegate.

And I'm currently going to be the co chair of the Emerging Leaders Alliance for Anthropocene. If you don't know what Anthropocene is, it's one of Britain's largest gathering of the private, public, and not for profit sectors in the UK. It's a three day summit, and it's all about inspiring a better Britain.

Perfect. So it sounds like we've got two fantastic candidates for this topic. So for my first question to you, what has been your experience so far in the energy industry? What has it been like for you?

I'm I'm I'm happy to start. I think it's been fantastic. I think there's just been so much opportunity to get involved in so many different parts of energy, and that's what really strikes me at yep forum events is that it's not just and particularly people that have always been in energy as well. It's been people that have come from law, come from business, come from analytics.

There's just been so much excitement around energy for quite a long time with emerging issues, with with with global warming.

And as a young professional, seeing that all happen around you and and developing at the same time has been has been exhilarating, I would say. You know, end of my seat. Not the end of my seat at the moment, but it's end of the seat stuff.

Amazing. And, Syma, same for you. And particularly as Sandy mentioned as well, like, how has that fed into your experience?

Absolutely could not agree more. So my graduate program was at the entry regulator Ofgem, as I mentioned, did it all across different parts of the organization.

And it's true that people are so exciting. It's very purpose driven, very mission led. You know, you want to reach net zero. You wanna do what's right. You wanna decarbonize the energy system and create a better future. And I think that's what makes it so unique in comparison to other sectors is that do good and be good, which is amazing.

And career wise as well, there's, as Sandy mentioned, so much opportunity to just grow your career. I mean, in you know, dare I say, in some realms, there's not really an expert. So it's very easy for you to just go ahead and become an expert. Like, you don't need to rely on someone who's been in the business for twenty years because that twenty years ago, whatever you're working on didn't actually exist.

Yeah. And I think even where, like, some sectors and some parts of sectors might have been the same and static for twenty, thirty, forty years, right now are are still going through that massive, massive upgrade. You you see things like electricity networks.

Traditionally, it's been special on the distribution side, you know, building out and reinforcing the network, but now the system operations are bringing a whole new whole new realm. And so to be a young professional amongst everything is is is really exciting. It's almost like there's there's so much up there's so much opportunity that, you know, where where do you start?

So I think that's one thing is sometimes it's like analysis paralysis, like, you could go anywhere. So what do you focus on?

And, you always like to think of it as like your t shaped skills and so you have the breadth of experience across an industry, and then you have the depth, that knowledge of a particular make yourself useful for the role that you're doing at the moment.

Yeah. I I agree as well.

As someone who's, like, a young professional in the energy space, and also somewhat new to the energy space as well.

Even as I'm learning, I'm also seeing that I'm teaching, well, giving information to other people as well and helping them understand bits that are coming into the energy world that didn't exist before. So, yeah, it seems like it's definitely an industry where even if you've been here for ages, there's still new things coming out that everyone kinda needs a help, a little bit of help with understanding more. So, yeah. Definitely agree with you guys there.

Absolutely. And I just wanna also touch on the variety of roles. Like, I think, traditionally, when you think of energy, you think of a hard hat, you think of an engineer, someone sitting in sort of like a power room. Whereas now, we need the comms people, the lawyers. There's there's such a breadth, the project managers, procurement people, commercial, whatever it is. There's such a breadth of energy jobs, and it's, you know, you don't necessarily have to have, like, a specific degree or specific background.

You can really just go in with the skills that you have, and they're so and how has this helped shape your thinking around not just your role as and how has this helped shape your thinking around not just your role as a young professional, but also the industry as a whole?

Very recently, I was a COP twenty eight UK youth delegate. So what that meant was I was very lucky to get a youth UN Blue Zone pass for COP twenty eight.

What does that mean?

So what does that mean? So it essentially means you're in sort of the more exclusive area of COP where there's government ministers floating around. So, I mean, I bumped into Chris Skidmore who had, you know, the Skidmore review in a book form. And me being an energy nerd, I was screaming.

I got to take a picture with him. Chris. No. Beyond just being able to take pictures with all these people that you read about, it was so interesting to actually just, like, speak to ministers and tell them from, like, a young professional or just, you know, a young person's point of view.

There's climate change happening, what the energy transition may means to you, all these things, and actually just speak to those people and also kind of, like, lobby them and just be, like, please have this on your radar.

So Yeah.

Yeah.

Because if I could ask, what what was the what's been the response when you go and talk to those very, very senior people about energy and about young professionals' place in it?

I mean, I think, you know, very, very lucky. I think we have a culture in this country where they, you know I was I was pleasantly surprised by how many MPs and ministers actually made the time for us as a youth delegation. And they seem to be incredibly receptive. And, you know, I think the fact that they're there and they're literally with other world leaders, and they could really just make time for the other world leaders, but they make time for you as well. I think it just shows their commitment, which is super exciting.

How did you get into that? Like, is that something that you think would be accessible to other other people?

So Blue Zone passes can be quite scarce. With that being said, there's loads of, sort of, networks. So I know there's I went with this something called the Future Leaders Network in the UK, and it's typically these not for profit, networks that have set up these delegations for the youth. There's also some companies offer them. I know there's sort of, like, scholarship sort of things where they fund you as well. So it's very much just trying to, like, be in the know in terms of googling it as much as you can and trying your best to sort of show your motivations Okay. And your experience.

Okay. Yes.

That that was gonna be my follow on question is what kind of credentials would someone need to So, I mean, the people in my delegation, there was a variety of backgrounds.

So I came from, like, quite a corporate background in terms of KPMG. I also had published two thought leadership reports which kind of really helped, I think, my journey and but with other people, you know, it was just sort of their passion. So there was someone in my delegation and she runs classes for school aged children just educating them about what climate change is.

Mhmm.

And, you know, her day job is nothing to do with climate change or sustainability, but it's the fact that she showed she had a passion for volunteering. And, yeah, I think, you know, it's quite broad and just really keep an eye out in sort of that world on what there is available.

Yeah.

If I could ask as well, if you could be obviously from a a UK perspective, did I'm always interested, what what field did you have for not just challenges in the UK, but challenges all over the world? You mentioned around how Muslims are affected disproportionately with climate change. Did that come to the fore for those kind of event events, especially at COP twenty eight as well, where Europe's based?

No. Exactly. So some of the things I found fascinating were they called them pavilions. So there's certain sections of COP that are focused on certain things.

So there's, like, a women's pavilion, there's a youth and children pavilion, and one of them was actually a faith pavilion. So it was so great to just sort of indulge in what particularly for me, the Islamic side of, you know, the link between environmentalism and Islam, but also learning about other religions, because I find that fascinating. I mean, you've got billions of people on this planet who follow a religion. And, you know, the influence of being able to tell them, well, actually, your religion teaches environmentalism, which most of the major faith acts faiths actually do.

And having to harness that power of positive change, I think, is so incredible.

And Sandy as well, what kind of outreach have have you been doing as well recently?

I'll start with the the Young Energy Professionals Forum. It's been a busy, busy time for the forum, especially with all of the volunteers that we have putting on events that they really want to do. So I'll start with maybe last year. Actually, a highlight of last year that the Pinchburn was having a parliamentary reception.

So we were hosted by an all party parliamentary group to go in the Churchill room. So we weren't at the terrace, but we were like the row the room behind it. But it's still really cool. It's a bit of a sort of a sort of stop and take take stock really of how far I'll become as a forum to to sort of have that event where we can have MPs come and talk about climate and and about energy.

And some of their advice was was quite illuminating as well. They they talk a lot about how they get swarmed especially at, like, events. Not not COP because that's different. You know, they're there to talk. But, essentially, they're essentially like, it's it's great that you've come to see me, but also think about the person next to you, your fellow young, you know, fellow peer who you'll be growing up in the sector with, you'll be sort of developing there. So that was really good advice, I think, to sort of be interested in everyone, you know, not not for what they do at the moment, but for who they are as well.

Another highlight was we had an industry prospectus that we featured you in recently as well, so that was very exciting. We we wanted to form that based on where you may find yourself in your in your career. And so we had apprentices.

We had young professionals.

We had people that had come into the energy industry from different industries.

What I really enjoyed about that was there was loads and loads of variety in terms of what people were doing. Some people were start up companies, working for massive ones, working in totally different parts of the the industry, law, analytics, business, engineering.

Quite a lot of their stories then were very varied, but it came down and what they had learned was actually quite similar. A lot of curiosity, a lot of showing kindness to people, and that real drive just to do what they're passionate about and do it really well, I think, was actually a very common thread across then. So we'd gone to all this trouble of getting the case studies for the industry prospectus, and we could literally just put be curious, be kind, you know, work hard at your job and make sure you really enjoy it, which I could, you know, maybe you already know, but it's really good to have that.

But more so have those, role models. You can't be what you can't see. And so having as well a lot of women in that prospectus doing a load of different jobs was, I think, very important. The feedback we've got has been really positive as well. So I'd I'd say those two things. And, obviously, when it comes to the YEP forum, we do pub quizzes. We had a pub quiz in January.

A happy part here. The YET mug made it. Yeah. I think where did you come? What what do you remember?

I think my team came second. We're second. Okay.

Not But I remember this I this could be a lie.

But I think I'm pretty sure we came second.

Stop mugwording, but it's still pretty good.

Stop second.

In my head, we came second.

You know because I think I was very disappointed because from the beginning, I had said, there's a Beyonce question.

I've got it, guys.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then there was a Beyonce question, and I didn't get it.

And it was and that would have been the difference in points to get us That is one flex.

So that is one confident flex as well to then to then do.

Very sad.

I think as well, a little bit more outreach as well just on the STEM ambassador side.

So it's I I would recommend STEM ambassadorship to anyone at all. A lot of companies provide community involvement and volunteering days to do that kind of thing. It's just really exciting to go to schools, to go to institutions, educational institutions to to try and inspire. I don't know. So I wouldn't say I don't say I would because I don't know. But, you know, try and inspire the next generation, you know, find what drives them, see if they would like to do and and have a very long career in energy as well. So that's always very exciting.

You've you've you've made me remember that I am a STEM ambassador myself, but I haven't done any STEM ambassadoring for a little while. So I would like to get back on that horse as well.

Remnant to look remember to log your hours.

Yeah. I get the emails, like, oh, I I I really should do this, I really will. I think you've made some really good points there, and just to so at the beginning, I I guess I did two questions in one. So just to to bring it all back together, so how do you think this has shaped your thinking around the energy industry? So from your experiences doing your outreach, how do you think that how does it change your outlook on the energy industry? And I guess, maybe things that we could be doing in the energy industry?

Yeah. So I suppose when I was working on the energy industry and well, like, most of the things I was working on, for example, financing a nuclear power station. Right? And you're doing these things, and I think sometimes you forget what the bigger picture is.

And for me, like, personally, going to all these experiences and stuff, it just made me realize there's actually a massive, it's like a worldwide phenomenon. Right? It's gonna affect everyone in the world, climate change. And just being able to, for me personally, contribute to some more of a just transition and advocate for that.

So, you know, even if it's when you're at the energy regulator, how do you make sure that there's a security of supply but also affordability for consumers?

And, you know, we have these huge projects that need to happen so that we can reach our net zero goals.

But how do we make sure that's fair and just for all? I think having that at the forefront of your mind gives you real purpose and actually just sort of just adds that layer off. You know, don't just put everything on consumers or don't just put everything on a taxpayer, but what can we do to try our best to get the most value for money whilst also achieving our goals?

Yeah. I think my reflections are I'm I'm humbled by how much young professionals do in in the sector and how much they can do as well.

And, yeah, very hopeful that that that can continue. And and as and as Sami mentioned, having that trilemma almost of having secure supply of energy at least cost, but as as low carbon as it can be is is really important to always have in the back of your mind, especially when you talk to other people as well about energy because, you know, I'm thinking about young professionals maybe not in energy, but but just your mates, you know, your your friends that maybe know nothing more than net zero by twenty fifty. It's really good to sort of have that and and be able to know that so you can communicate as well.

Have you seen yeah. Have you seen any impact direct impact from that?

Well, the most direct is when we have, like, an MP retweet us, which sounds very small, but then I'm like, wow. Like, wow. You know you know about, you know, the industry prospectus. I think another sort of, again, pinch moment was in the prospectus we had, we were able to get sixty second interviews with the CEO of National Grid and with Energy UK, that as well.

I think the feedback we always get from those publications and those events is I learned something new, which I think is is what we always strive to do, whether it be a site visit to, an offshore wind farm or when Sizel b last last year, I think, as well. And so, yeah, I think the the direct impact has been providing people with the opportunity to to sort of explore more about the energy sector system.

And if I could add on from my experience of just being part of the network so not necessarily, like, the organisation side of things, the great and the most, like I I remember the most outstanding thing I remember about Young Energy Professionals is the fact that we can network with like minded people. Yeah. Particularly when, you know, you're working in organizations that might not sadly be as diverse as they could be. Just to, you know, you might be the youngest person in your team. You might not be able to relate to all the great people that are working as more senior to you. Going to a space where, you know, there's other young professionals, you have other things in common, not just your passion for energy, that whole networking aspect, I think, is fantastic.

Yeah. Yeah. The record, when me and Simon met, we both went pro. Exactly.

I don't think you can get away with that, like, at work.

I mean, I can't lie. My team probably are very used to be GoPros.

But yeah.

But that is true. Yeah. Because I only got involved in the EP forum because I joined Ofgem in twenty nineteen, same year as CYBER as well. I was doing an analyst job.

And my I loved my team. I was doing ESR regulation, really enjoying it. I did feel lonely though. I I I had come from university up up up the north.

I went went to Leeds for five years, and so coming to a whole new city was was daunting even though my my team was really, really supportive. And so the YEP forum was a great opportunity to meet new people, complete strangers. We were just bonded by our interest in energy. So I think what myself and everyone else that puts on the events at the Yet Forum does works towards works towards that, you know, making of new bonds.

Yeah. And if I'm being totally biased, perhaps I am, is the fact that, as I said, you know, these are mission driven people. Mhmm.

And, you know, we want a better world.

Mhmm.

And naturally, that shows in everyone's personalities, everyone's characters. So, yeah, that's me being totally biasing.

Equally biased.

Or such as the St.

Ipsilio people are the best people ever. But I feel like the vibe is way better than perhaps other sectors.

Oh, sorry.

We have vibes.

We have vibes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You heard it here first.

But I wonder as well, like, was talking a lot about energy, but I was, you know, ESG as well. So I wanted to do that. So whilst a lot of our our events in the forum are energy related, how does it go with sustainability? Is that also very easy to talk to people about, or is it is it different? Because I guess do you see quite a lot more of that in places like COP and also in, like, Leaders twenty fifty as well when when you were when you're doing work there?

I think it's so interesting because, I mean, I made the sort of the switch from energy to ESG. And at the time, I was like, oh, surely it's quite similar. And I assumed when I went into ESG ESG consulting, oh, I'd just be working on energy clients. And then I remember the first thing I worked on was an asset manager, and I was like, I don't know anything about finance.

But, no, it's super interesting because, as I said, everyone knows the bigger picture of we're trying to get to net zero. We're trying to make a cleaner, greener, more efficient planet, so on and so forth. So I think it's super great in that sense. I think what I really appreciate in the sustainability world is the fact that they do have this much bigger picture lens Mhmm.

As opposed to sometimes in energy, you can easily get lost with, we need to green the grid, or we need to make sure there's more, you know, low carbon connections on the grid, and it can turn quite niche. Whereas I feel like in sustainability, it's it's much broader. For me, one of the benefits was how how expanded my mind in the sense of we have this net zero transition that needs to take place, but who's going to finance this? And then it made sense.

Oh, this is why I'm working with an asset manager because these are the billions and billions of dollars that are actually gonna finance these these projects.

You know, it's gonna finance that whole green revolution.

So, yeah, for me, I feel like it was definitely I mean, I'm not suggesting everyone go change energy jobs into sustainability jobs, but I would definitely say go dabble in that pie and actually realize the bigger picture. And as I mentioned, it also opens your mind to the broader aspects of it, of the whole just transition side of things and who's actually being impacted by the green transition or climate change impacts. And like I said, it gives you that whole systems view and not just one niche part of it. So yeah.

And can you just for anyone who maybe isn't familiar with these acronyms, can you just explain what ESG stands for?

So ESG stands for environmental, social, and governance. So that's typically in reference to environmental just means, for example, in a corporate setting, making sure that a company is being as green as it can possibly be. Social refers to making sure that they have, sort of, social integrity and positive social impact. So, for example, if it's an electricity company about to build a whole new power station, are they creating local jobs? So they're perhaps bringing in apprentices into this whole new power station that's being made because that's positive for social mobility, for example. And then governance would just mean that companies are following the right decision making processes, making sure that there's the right checks and balances and that the right people are being held to account for, what they're bringing out in decision making.

How would you like to see, in this case, the energy sector transformed? And in particular, how do you see young professionals being a part of that?

One of the great things I'm seeing in the energy sector is really that push for diversity and inclusion.

So there's some great forums out there, things like Powerful Women, led by Laura Sande, CB. She's fantastic.

And that's all about getting more women in energy. And then there's also things like I know there's the task force on inclusion and diversity in energy. I hope I've got it's called TIDE. I hope I've got that acronym right.

And that's all about just increasing the representation of who actually works in the energy sector and making sure that it's for everybody, you know, from my personal experience. There were definitely times where I'd be in a call with, you know, loads of representatives from DNOs, which are distribution network operators. They'd be about, what, thirty people on a call. There might be three women, and you'd be, like, the only person of color on a call.

And this was, I know, only a couple years ago. But still, I think that really put into perspective of it can end up feeling a bit lonely. And you just think, oh, do I really belong here? Whereas other sectors are you know, when I've worked on clients from, perhaps, technology, and they will walk into their offices, and it's, you know, great to see the diversity there and the inclusive practices.

It's super we definitely have to have learnings from outside of the energy sector. So seeing that, and seeing young people actually speak up about it, and say, hey, Like, you know, why does everyone look the same in a team? Or not even just look the same, but why is everyone from Oxbridge in a team?

Yeah.

Like, acts the same.

Yeah. Yeah.

Why is everyone an engineer in the team when we're not necessarily working on hardcore engineering? Like, things like that is just sort of just flagging that, and I think that's the great thing about, dare I say, our generation is we don't you know, we're we're a little bit more braver, And, you know, research has shown, there's some KPMG research. It's called KPMG Climate Quitting Research. It's shown one in three young people, so eighteen to twenty four year olds, will reject a job offer if it doesn't align with their ESG values.

So, you know, the few it's a risk for the future workforce. If you want the best talent, you need to be able to attract that and show that you are actually focusing on truly being equitable, inclusive, and diverse.

I I would I would echo all that. You know, echo a lot of that mentioned about powerful, and I think one point I was going to make was on young professional representation at higher levels. And so, for for lack of a better phrase, like a seat at the table.

Powerforming, for example, came out recently and appointed, I think, a couple of young professionals to their board. And it's those kind of practices that are great because instead of having a lot of very senior people talk about young professionals, why don't just invite them to those meetings? So I would say that's a real step forward in ensuring that young professionals' voices are heard. And so, yeah, we, you know, the forum, we we work on interim prospectuses, or is it prospecti? Who knows? We work on industry prospectuses.

We work on thought pieces, polling, and we wanna make sure that that's not just seen but acted upon. So you haven't got seen people saying, that's great. Go and do your young professional thing over there. Really sort of have that seat at the table and and have a voice that because all those decisions that are being made, you know, your company on the wider on the wider platform of I don't know. You could be as high as energy acts or legislation.

All that's going to affect us as well as people for years and years to come. So having a seat at the table I think would be one that would be really great to see. I think on that diversity side, diversity of people, diversity of thought, really, I know having particular groups like, you know, working working groups, young professional networks, or or just networks in general is quite nice because or it's quite good because you're able then to pool all of those thoughts together and provide, for example, those consistent messages to your senior stakeholders.

Because I think that then allows them to not cop out and say, oh, well, I've heard something very stiff. You know, I've heard heard something completely opposite of what you've said and what you know, where's the where's the message? So having that group of people saying, no, this is what our message is, it becomes hard to ignore.

Yeah. I was just gonna mention also that seat on the table point. Renewable UK, which is one of the largest trade associations for renewable, sort of you know, those companies interested in renewables, is they have a shadow board, and they've had that for many years. And Wonderful.

They rarely do, from what I understand, listen to the shadow board members. And those are, I who are from across the energy industry, mainly working in renewables. And they sort of just put their thoughts in for Renewable UK who represents so many companies. So that's, like, a great practice.

Another and the reason why I know about that is because, I published a thought leadership report with KPMG called Net Zero Influencers. And we, you know, touched on how shadow boards are a great tool for the net zero transition and for companies to sort of really listen to the young professionals. Our research also showed that ninety five percent of those surveyed felt that young professionals' voices weren't integrated at leadership levels. So we came out with a framework, and that framework was designed by, you know, over twenty interviews with young professionals, a survey of over a hundred and fifty respondents, and also we had a panel event, which was a great q and a as well.

So that's me, Shameless, who plugging my report. But, I mean, if anyone wants any more stats and sort of just, like, case studies, like, Defo just tap into that. So that's the KPMG net zero influences. System.

Was a good report. Can confirm it was a good report.

I need to get up to speed then.

And Yeah.

It's alright.

Yeah. Yeah. We had some great contributors.

Just bringing it back to the context of the four hundred thousand jobs required, in the sector coming up to twenty fifty, I think as well with regards to things like YPs, STEM Ambassadors, all the different, outreach organizations that you're involved with as well, I think giving there's I feel like there's multiple layers at which people can kind of come in multiple levels that people can come into the industry. So you have people who are coming straight out of school, people who are coming out of university, people who maybe want to switch careers. And I think something that the YEP prospectus pointed out as well, is that people join the energy sector at any anytime.

And it's I think, one of the statistics I was reading was like twenty two percent of of, people who do a level physics, I think this was in twenty twenty, were was women. It depends at what stage we're getting involved with people to kind of show them that these are the opportunities that are available. So, yes, I think it's good that there's a a range of of different activities going on to catch people at different points in their life, that kinda expose them to the different things that are going on in the energy industry. And another thing I noticed in the prospectus was people saying that they'd seen, they were watching a documentary or something like that and realized, oh my gosh, like this is real life and I can do something to to change it.

So I think as well as more people become conscious of the things that are going on in the world, that as well kinda helps to feed into people's knowledge and how accessible they find the industry, I think. Yeah.

That's true because I wonder like, I I wonder if anyone's done any research to to try and model how many people have joined the sciences from planet Earth. How many people are like, yeah. David Asprey, that was a great documentary. Let's join let's join science.

And I know on channel four, there's like Guy Martin's power trip where he goes to power station. That was so cool, you know, seeing seeing the inside of Drax as well. Yeah. So no.

Very true. Very true. I think that element of cross pollination is very important because especially when a lot of work can it can apply to not just the energy sector but others. If you're really good at coding, if you're really good at analysis, energy might be a sector you can go into, but you can also go into the tech industry.

You can also go into business. You can do a lot. And so it's not that it's not just that you're competing for energy people to try and fill that four hundred thousand workforce gap, it's it's everywhere.

You know, you're competing against Yeah.

Every other industry that wants bright minds. So, yeah, it's a it's a difficult one.

Yeah. And I think as well, it's not just as you mentioned, it's not just and so as Simon mentioned, it's not just engineers. There's all sorts of different roles, even in terms of what I do here at Modo. Like, I do video content.

I do articles. There's whole companies dedicated to writing articles energy industry. Well, actually, there's quite a few different publications. Yeah.

So so yeah. That's a big Yeah.

That's perfect.

Yeah.

There's a lot a lot of different types of roles that people can go into as well, which I think No.

Definitely. You know, one of my favorite sayings, and I first sort of heard this when I was out in the states for a TED conference, and that was every job is a climate job. So I would also put that to every job is also an energy job. You know?

As you mentioned, you know, for bringing out a new power station, we need the lawyers for that thing.

You know, the procurement specialist, whatnot. There's so many jobs out there, and it's all of us coming together just to play our part in essentially getting to net zero.

Amazing. Now for the for the sake of time, we've got maybe one more one more main question to go through, and then I wanna hear what your contrarian views are as well. Yeah. So So this is a nice well, hopefully, it's a nice positive question. And I guess off this theme of, you know, we're looking to the future. And so what are your hopes for the future, not just with regards to young energy professionals or young professionals in general, but, just, our work towards net zero, what would you like to see happening in the future?

I think I'm absolutely just gonna be like, it needs to be fair and just for all. We need to make sure that nobody's disproportionately affected. We need to make sure we take everybody on board. And I think a lot of that, if we need to turn that into action, is the communication issue we have. There's so much jargon. You know, there can be so many silos. And it's just communicating to the average person on the street that climate change is happening and this is how we're gonna, sort of, mitigate the impacts, come along for the ride as well, and trying to create that narrative and get that going, which I think is often missing.

Mhmm. Thank you.

Silenced on my idea. That's that's exactly the same as mine. I would say hopes are, yeah, that we can all help Britain achieve net zero regardless of what role we do, what level we find ourselves, or where we'd like to be in the future. That, as mentioned, every job is an energy job, every job's an environment job. So it'd be great to see in the future young professionals having more of an impact than they already do on that because from what I've seen, more than capable. So I'm looking forward to seeing that more.

So both of you have mentioned quite a few different things that you're involved with and things that you've done. So is there anything that you'd like to plug?

So one of the things I'd love to plug is Two Billion Strong. As I mentioned, it's a not for profit because still on sort of amplifying the Muslim voice for climate action. It's not exclusively for Muslims. It's very much a community to bring people together. So, go follow at two billion strong on Instagram, and we should be in the summer publishing the first ever Muslim climate action report, which explores the barriers for Muslims in climate action and how to avoid those. So yeah.

What time would I ask? Well, we've we've got some great documents and reports out already, which which we can provide links to mention of the industry prospectus. We've done a thought piece in the past. We provide loads of really great opportunities to go to sites that you we may we, you know, you wouldn't maybe you'd maybe struggle to go to. So to offshore wind farms, into nuclear plants. So so I would like to plug that that you can sign up to the YEP forum mailing list via Energy UK's website, and we'll provide a link to do that because then you can be kept up to date with all those site visits, all those networking events, all those panel events that we put on as a team.

Thank you very much. I'm also gonna do a little plug.

Go for it.

I feel like based on the conversation that we've had today, if anyone is listening and is thinking that they'd like to learn more about the energy sector, then check out the Moto Energy Academy or the Energy Academy.

You can you can find it on moto energy dot com, and it's also on YouTube. And it's a nice little series which is like an intro to energy and power markets in the UK. So if if you're listening or if you're preparing to share this with anyone who you think might want to know more about how everything works in the UK, then I would definitely recommend the Energy Academy.

I can confirm it's really good that Murdoch Energy Academy I've I've gone through it. I don't know if you're an alumni of the academy after you pass it, it, but, yeah, I know a lot of us at work like the academy, like the research, our schools as well, and I know I know it supplements our sort of, like, you know, expert optimization as well. So so I would yeah. I I would I would, you know, agree with the with the plug for the Energy Academy. Got an ERCOT one now, haven't you, as well?

Yes. We do. So if you're if you're interested in how how energy systems work over in Texas as well, you can listen to the you can watch the ERCOT Academy. Now, it's come to that point of the podcast where I would like to hear your contrarian belief.

I am absolutely gonna chicken out on this one, and say it might not be a contrarian belief, but it's something I think we need to do a lot more of, and this is me absolutely stealing the terminology from anthropy, and that is get rid of silos. You know, energy industry is so broad. There's so many aspects of it. There's things like, you know, the hydrogen world, the nuclear world, the ESO world.

There's so many different worlds, and there's so many learnings we can bring together. So avoid the silos. Just know that it's one big happy family of energy. So let's share the learnings together because we're all you know, there's a lot of emerging markets and sort of just emerging products that are gonna coming out.

And it's like, come together and share those learnings for efficiency.

Yeah.

I would say an acronym dictionary would be helpful as well.

You know?

We talked we talked about NISO. You know? Yeah. Definitely worth doing.

Lend it to the platform as we speak.

My contrarian belief is that the electricity system is simple.

I think we just make it difficult.

I just I just I just think I just think after so many years of of, like, sedimenting on all these processes, I think it's just super complicated, isn't it? You know? And then that's what what's great about learning about it and and finding a niche so that you can demystify parts and it's really useful. But it's simple, isn't it?

You know? Just give energy and electricity to people that need it. Yeah. At least cost, you know, as green as it's possible.

It's quite simple. Simple.

Yeah.

We think We make it difficult.

We make it difficult. Yeah. With acronyms.

Yeah. We make it difficult. That's my yeah. I I would say that's my belief.

Yeah.

I think it is pretty contrary, and I don't know how many people would agree that it's simple.

Yeah. Especially in the control room. Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm sure they have a different view on us, but there you go.

But thanks so much for coming on the podcast. It's been brilliant having you. We've talked about some really interesting things and hopefully our listeners will have a lot to take away from it as well and be sharing this far and wide, so that we can get some new new new young blood into the industry as well. And also, I don't wanna say old blood, but experienced blood.

Experienced blood. Yeah.

Making a transition as well. Yeah. So yeah. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much for having us.

Yeah. Thanks. You know, it's been great to be, what's the phrase, long time listener, first time caller. So I'm I'm glad to I'm glad glad to to finally be here. So thank you for having me.